Not officially linked with Minutemen, but this type of behavior is no bueno:

Army Reservist Charged in Border Detention

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...er_detention_1

 

I have no issues with immigrants coming over whatsoever. But make no mistake I said immigrants. It's one thing if they come over and follow the protocol that has been prescribed but to come over illegally is unacceptable. If the world wasn't in the state its in it wouldn't really concern me because lets face it, we're all immigrants just like the people crossing in some respect, we've just been here longer. The thing that concerns me is terrorism. Just the other day they caught suspected terrorists on an airplane bound for Peorto Rico who they believe were conducting reconaissance because they look very similar to people of hispanic decent. If I was a terrorist trying to get in the US I would fly into Mexico City where there is far less security and then cross the border. Other than that, what's wrong with giving people from Mexico having chance at a better life. Isn't that why we have the Statue of Liberty or is that right only afforded to Europeans? But back to the threads real topic, the Minutemen. I think that if we have people who have the time to go sit on the border looking for people who they believe are going to steal their jobs we need to actually look at the situation. These people aren't getting paid, they are not working and I know there is lettuce to be picked and strawberries to be washed. That goes to show you that the people that are here are not going to take those jobs. I know I would continue looking for a job before I'd pick a head of lettuce. I'm not saying I'm to good for it, I'm just saying that's not exactly working towards my goal in life. All they want is a chance to prosper and if they have to start picking lettuce let them do it. People from Europe didn't pick lettuce because it doesn't grow in New England. They worked 12 hour+ days in factories and those were our ancestors. Nuff said.

 

I've got no problem giving people a chance for a better life. But if you read some of the above facts you'll see that I, as a Californian, am forced to pay $1183 every year so they can have that chance.

They're mostly retirees and people taking vacation time from their jobs. They're doing this to raise awareness of the problem: our borders are out of control! They're not worried about illegal aliens stealing THEIR jobs, they're worried about the strain that illegal aliens are putting on OUR economy. Yeah, maybe we should all give up our vacation time and not retire. We should work in the fields instead.


People here don't do those jobs because they don't pay well. They don't pay well because illegal immigrants are keeping the wages down. This is also true in more skilled-labor positions, such as construction. Would we have to pay more for produce and homes, yes. But this would be offset by the lower taxes and social service costs for illegal aliens and our own working-class citizens. If you look at the population of Mexico you'll see which way we're headed. They have a huge level of poverty, and very few middle- and upper-class citizens.

 

I never said illegal immigrants don't drive costs up and I obviously didn't make it clear enough that I am COMPLETELY AGAINST ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. And by the way, I am in no way being confrontational I am just stating my opinion better. What I didn't say but should have to clarify myself is that we shouldn't force these people into having to cross the border. Let's give them a medium of communication and make everything legit. Tell them we will have no mercy for illegals and make it clear that we will punish them as far as the law provides. Also let them know that there is an alternative to doing it illegally and make it easier for them to become citizens. Once they do it legit they get taxed and don't drive labor costs down. By being taxed they comtribute (although I admit, significantly less than you probably do) to Social Security and all other tax funded programs. Also get Mexico's gov't involved in Border Patrol. Tell them that when their illegeal aliens come over here and have uninsured vehicle accidents, traffic drugs, etc... they will be imprisioned and to offset our care prices for them while they are in prison they will get plenty of manual labor on the chain gang cleaning the highways with a far longer sentence than that of a normal violator. If the problem still presists starting putting tariffs on Mexican goods and raise the tax on labor outsourcing on American companies who ship from Mexico. Then American companies pull their ties with Mexico and Mexican fights even hard to make a dime because of the tariffs and have no choice but to take action and combat it. We will never be able to stop illegal aliens as long as they don't have a reason to register. If it is made easier for them to become citizens more will do it we just have to make it available and motivate them to do it. I hope this clears things up a little better.

 

By the way, about you having to pay an extra $1183 every year for them to have this privelege is really kind of irrelevant giving the fact that most of what we pay in tax goes to those without jobs or low income. I am sure a lot of my taxes go to people who sit around all day and wait on the mail man to bring them their check (our check). I would honestly rather see my money go to them then people who have been here forever and have no excuse for not being gainfully employed. Regardless of what we do we are going to have to share some portion of our income with others who didn't work for it. It's the nature of the beast I guess you could say. If I could eliminate that would I, of course I would. But I am not in charge and my representives which I have (or have not) voted for dictate what my tax money's best interests are.

 

Well, $1183 every year is a big chunk of change for one family. I would hardly call it irrelevant. This is IN ADDITION to the money we're already pouring into welfare for our own citizens. So it's not an issue of "either-or" with this money. It' both or one. I prefer one. The estimate is also outdated, the illegal immigrant population has probably doubled since that number was published. It also doesn't include the federal money that goes into this problem. So we're paying for our poor, why should we pay for Mexico's also? Additionally, if our citizens on welfare had a chance to pick lettuce or hammer nails for a reasonable wage, some of them would probably not sit around so much. I agree that welfare isn't going away and I don't expect it to. But we're paying BILLIONS of dollars on people who have NO RIGHT to be here. They don't pay taxes, they don't contribute to the economy, they don't have medical or auto insurance, they don't speak our language, and they have no loyalty to this country.

 

bone324
They don't pay taxes, they don't contribute to the economy, they don't have medical or auto insurance, they don't speak our language, and they have no loyalty to this country.

Once they do it legit they get taxed and don't drive labor costs down. By being taxed they comtribute (although I admit, significantly less than you probably do) to Social Security and all other tax funded programs.

I feel the same way you do about that. That's why I say we legalize them and get them to contribute. As far as them not having a right to be here I can't really see how you can say that. What gave you the right to be here (assuming you are not 100% Native American)? They will have loyalty to America as soon as they see that they became successful here. If you go to where I am from there are first generation Italians that are very proud of their heritage but if you ask them what they are they will look at you like you are an idiot. They claim American just as much as I do. It's kind of like Hawaii. My friend is from Hawaii and he is an American first and a Hawaiian second. Just as the Italians are and what the Mexicans will probably be in the future. I'm not trying to play devils advocate and I completely respect your opinion (I almost completely agree with it). I just don't think it'd be right to turn people away from America when no one did this to us.

 

A lot of what is being said here is why Bush isn't a true conservative. Which is one of the numerous reasons I laugh when people use "Neo-Con" like Bush is a ****. Not to mention the fact it's a grossly misunderstood word. It's basically ignorance to a stern foreign policy.

Anyways, he's more of an open borders President. His stance on NAFTA, his questionable borders policy and his aggressive foreign policy also suggest moderate Conservatism to a dash of moderate leftistism at times. Why do you think so many Mexicans are desperately trying to get into this country? It's also why we have Patriot Act as opposed to a closed border now.

 

We're still talking about illegal immigration. So they crossed the border ILLEGALLY. They have no right to be here. I was born here, that gives me the right to be here. Millions of people have immigrated LEGALLY, which gives them the right to be here. Thousands of people are here as visitors on visas, LEGALLY, which gives them the right to be here. Illegal aliens have no right to be here.

They will not become successful here if they pick lettuce for minimum wage. That's why U.S. citizens won't do the work themselves. Many of these illegal aliens don't want to be citizens, they are loyal to Mexico. They send their earnings to Mexico because our minimum wage is big money down there. After IRCA 86, which was the last amnesty, many of the new citizens decided they shouldn't have to work for low wages. Instead, they decided to compete for the higher-paying jobs. So, in essence, the amnesty did little or nothing to slow illegal immigration because the low-paying jobs were still only attractive to ILLEGAL immigrants. The solution is higher wages for legal workers and employer sanctions. When the employers start having to pay fines for hiring illegal aliens you can bet your *** things are going to change.

I respect your opinion also. I didn't enter this country illegally and I'm pretty sure you didn't either. Nor did my parents, grandparents, or anyone I know in my family. No one turned us (or our families) away because we didn't break the law to be here. I can see where you're coming from, but we're not oppressing these people and us turning them away has nothing to do with their race or where they come from. The corrupt Mexican government bears 100% of the blame for the plight of their people and we're paying for their ineptitude.

 

I completely agree with both of these statements and the only reason I made a few of my last posts was because I thought you were saying we need to end immigration to Mexicans completely. I agree with you. They do send their wages back and end up going back once they feel they've made enough to live off of. When I lived in Texas a guy came to do tile in our house and told me completely honestly that he was illegal and mailing all most all his earnings back. I am sure if his employer got fined a few thousand dollars he'd have fired all those illegals because the money he saved on labor would have just been lost and it hurts his business's reputation more importantly.