Military Casualties
01-07-2007, 12:12 AM
#1
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Military Casualties
http://swivel.com/graphs/show/5046488
I'm not trying to make any statements by posting this graph other than it's a crying shame when anyone loses their lives at the hands of another.
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I'm not trying to make any statements by posting this graph other than it's a crying shame when anyone loses their lives at the hands of another.
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01-07-2007, 10:13 PM
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Obviously each death and maiming wound is a tragedy, but what amazes me is how success and failure is perceived today vs. history. Low losses vs. high enemy casualty rate is no longer as telling of a statistic when wars have evolved into more of a 'hearts & minds' conflicts.
Interesting factoid: Keeping in mind that a brigade is roughly only 1500 soldiers, the Sky Soldiers of the 173d Airborne Brigade, while serving in Vietnam, took nearly 2/3 as many casualties as the entire US Military in operation Iraqi Freedom:
Though the 173d's colors had been retired for a long time, they were unsheathed again a few years ago and have seen combat in Iraq as well.
The only commentary I'd make is that I wonder what the majority of the American people (and the world) consider to be success or failure in Iraq.
My opinion is that I don't feel like I'm in a position to fully appreciate what would be the ramifications if we never went to Iraq, but my gut tells me that the situation in the entire middle east region was one of a 'dud' stick of dynomite. That left unchecked, there would have been a huge 'explosion' of power struggles, wars, widespread, boundary-less civil wars, greatly intensified global terrorism, conspiracies, deviant alliances, even greater oil price gouging.... One or two of the more influential countries would be amassing power, influence, and tremendous ****-like fomentation to where all Muslims became more radical in their beliefs, and the US would quickly find itself, at best, the 2nd most powerful nation in the world.
Interesting factoid: Keeping in mind that a brigade is roughly only 1500 soldiers, the Sky Soldiers of the 173d Airborne Brigade, while serving in Vietnam, took nearly 2/3 as many casualties as the entire US Military in operation Iraqi Freedom:
The Troopers of the 173d Airborne Brigade wear their combat badges and decorations with pride. During more than six years of nearly continuous combat in Vietnam, The brigade earned four unit citations, had 13 Medal of Honor winners, had over 130 distinguished service crosses winners. 1731** Sky Soldiers were killed in action and another 8,345 were wounded in action. These 10,076 casualties incurred by the Brigade were five times greater then the 187th Airborne Regiment in Korea, four times greater than those suffered by the 11th Airborne Division in the Pacific in WWII, more than twice those suffered by the 101st Airborne Division in Europe in WWII, and two thirds of those suffered by the entire 82nd Airborne Division in WWII. The Brigade took part in 14 designated campaigns and conducted the only U.S. line combat parachute assault of the Vietnam war. The Brigade was Deactivated on 14 January 1972 at Fort Campbell, Kentucky.
The only commentary I'd make is that I wonder what the majority of the American people (and the world) consider to be success or failure in Iraq.
My opinion is that I don't feel like I'm in a position to fully appreciate what would be the ramifications if we never went to Iraq, but my gut tells me that the situation in the entire middle east region was one of a 'dud' stick of dynomite. That left unchecked, there would have been a huge 'explosion' of power struggles, wars, widespread, boundary-less civil wars, greatly intensified global terrorism, conspiracies, deviant alliances, even greater oil price gouging.... One or two of the more influential countries would be amassing power, influence, and tremendous ****-like fomentation to where all Muslims became more radical in their beliefs, and the US would quickly find itself, at best, the 2nd most powerful nation in the world.
01-08-2007, 12:19 AM
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Well put.
People can't accept that fact that there were always bigger fish to fry in Iraq once WMDs was put on the back burner. People seem to think that there's a correlation between this lie/misconception and the inability to accept the amount of US and allied deaths compared to other wars. I say yes and no. Let me explain...
Even though this may be true to a certain extent, I feel that the way our country and environment has evolved in the last forty years plays an even bigger part. Let's face it, technological advances and social evolution have virtually castrated this country.
I'm not saying that the WMD lie or misconception wasn't a big part in the lacking popularity of the war because it was. I'm saying that the baby boomer generation, liberal/hippy movement, and dominos "30 minutes or it's free" generation wouldn't of had the thick enough skin required to withstand MILLIONS of allied deaths in WWII no matter how justifiable the cause. Short of the threat of alien annihilation I don’t think they ever could get close to justification.
The proof is comparing the WMD lie/misconception to a good old piece of American WWII propaganda. All it took to divert us from multiple causes - this 'dud' stick of dynamite aka the grand scheme of things happening and set to happen in Iraq - was the fact Iraq having WMDs wasn’t as solidified as people thought in 2003. That said, there’s NO WAY todays society would ever be able to accept the same pro-American propaganda that helped convert textile factories to ammo and armor factories, help people conserve and ration, convinced women and a growing number of men to be apart of this cause, and overall helped us win WWII. People would have protested about how America had blinded them with lies and diversions tied to defense contracts and industry. Down with Rooseman!
This realization has reshaped my reasonings behind modern war. Unless there’s a major social revolution that thickens America’s skin or there really is a threat of annihilation from martians that unites our cause 100%, I firmly believe we need to abandon any military actions in the world except homeland defense from an imminent and immediate offensive. We just don't have the patience, the unity and drive to win wars anymore. We become as quiet as the Scandinavian countries and sip egg nog for the rest of our days pretending we don’t give a **** unless the Chinese are on our shores.
We cannot win the hearts and minds of Americans unless war is imminent on our own front lawn. Although you and I felt this dud piece of dynomite existed in Iraq, there's no way to convince the masses that it ever was a threat that justified going to war, especially under false pretense.
People can't accept that fact that there were always bigger fish to fry in Iraq once WMDs was put on the back burner. People seem to think that there's a correlation between this lie/misconception and the inability to accept the amount of US and allied deaths compared to other wars. I say yes and no. Let me explain...
Even though this may be true to a certain extent, I feel that the way our country and environment has evolved in the last forty years plays an even bigger part. Let's face it, technological advances and social evolution have virtually castrated this country.
I'm not saying that the WMD lie or misconception wasn't a big part in the lacking popularity of the war because it was. I'm saying that the baby boomer generation, liberal/hippy movement, and dominos "30 minutes or it's free" generation wouldn't of had the thick enough skin required to withstand MILLIONS of allied deaths in WWII no matter how justifiable the cause. Short of the threat of alien annihilation I don’t think they ever could get close to justification.
The proof is comparing the WMD lie/misconception to a good old piece of American WWII propaganda. All it took to divert us from multiple causes - this 'dud' stick of dynamite aka the grand scheme of things happening and set to happen in Iraq - was the fact Iraq having WMDs wasn’t as solidified as people thought in 2003. That said, there’s NO WAY todays society would ever be able to accept the same pro-American propaganda that helped convert textile factories to ammo and armor factories, help people conserve and ration, convinced women and a growing number of men to be apart of this cause, and overall helped us win WWII. People would have protested about how America had blinded them with lies and diversions tied to defense contracts and industry. Down with Rooseman!
This realization has reshaped my reasonings behind modern war. Unless there’s a major social revolution that thickens America’s skin or there really is a threat of annihilation from martians that unites our cause 100%, I firmly believe we need to abandon any military actions in the world except homeland defense from an imminent and immediate offensive. We just don't have the patience, the unity and drive to win wars anymore. We become as quiet as the Scandinavian countries and sip egg nog for the rest of our days pretending we don’t give a **** unless the Chinese are on our shores.
We cannot win the hearts and minds of Americans unless war is imminent on our own front lawn. Although you and I felt this dud piece of dynomite existed in Iraq, there's no way to convince the masses that it ever was a threat that justified going to war, especially under false pretense.
Last edited by Salty; 01-08-2007 at 01:57 AM. Reason: added a little
01-08-2007, 09:40 PM
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Salty, my gut could be wrong but I do believe that as this plays out, it'll become more apparent how dire the situation could've (and still could) become.
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