Paul did you hear the guest that Savage had on yesterday? The one that compared the state of CA to an addict. For those that didn't it's good for a podcast.

 

It's good that you don't let critical thinking get in the way of constructive discussion. I'm sure that really helps you in your daily life. I'm sure your inability to converse with people that have a differing viewpoint in an adult fashion also helps.

The federal government taking by force a portion of my earned money so that it can spend it without my consent or input is--by any definition of the term--theft. Whether it uses it for the creation of the internet, stem cell research, war, or $10,000 toilet seats, it is still theft.

The real question should be: is that theft justified? Some, like yourself, would say yes. I say that if we are given a choice on what our taxes are spent on, then it is no longer "theft."

And for the record: "the internet" came from ARPANet, which was created by the Department of Defense.

To be absolutely clear: I am talking about federal income tax.

 

The issue is not a question of contributing to society, it's a question of where I want my "contributions" to go.

You may have no problem with your money being used for things that you disagree with, but my opinion differs.

 

State taxes are without a doubt a necessity. Federal income tax is not.

 

I converse with plenty of people i don't agree with. for instance, i think Paul is out of his mind, but he also doesn't talk from his colon as you do. Its also funny that you accuse me of not thinking critically while at the same time presenting one of the most absurd collection of ideas I've ever seen.

Its like your running the chewbacca defense.

in this country you agree to give up certain freedoms for the betterment of all, its called the social contract and its what society is based on. if you don't like it, you are free to emigrate to any country in the world that you please.

saying that the government is stealing your money from you is like saying that they are violating your personal freedoms by passing laws against Murder.

your vote isn't a choice? remember: majority rule with minority rights

what country are you from? because here in America, the DoD is funded by the Federal government with the help of our taxes.

so without Federal income tax... there would be no interstate highway or rail systems. no FAA, NTSB, etc....

so basically wed be africa. a huge plot of really nice land with no infrastructure and a bunch of **** poor, illiterate farmers.... with guns.

voting, campaigning, and otherwise being active in our democracy is how you make your opinion known and thus propagate 'change'.

So state taxes are ok but fed taxes are not? either way they are "stealing" money from your check without your consent. the only thing that determines who is doing it is a few lines on a map. there is absolutely no difference between Fed and State taxes aside from the name you put on the check.

 

this kid is ****ing high

 

All of us adult citizens with the exception of convicts are free to vote for our representatives. If you don't like where your money ended up, find someone who will put that money where you want and vote for them.

We can't have 350 million Americans individual dictating where exactly their tax dollars are spent. If you want oversight on every penny of your income tax, maybe you should run for office and propose the most cost effective budget in American history. Be prepared to have every lawyer, union rep, lobbiest, and special interest group in the country fighting you every step of the way. That's up to you.

At the risk of sounding extremely folksy, "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem"

 

And you're a jackass 24 year-old that thinks he knows everything and is incapable of holding a civil discussion.

You can take your opinion and **** yourself with it.

 

I'm going to spend no more than 5 minutes responding to your ignorant drivel:

I think you're a ****ing moron, but until now I did not use that as an excuse to personally attack you the way that you have done to me.

Thanks for the civics lesson. I'm well aware of the concept of a social contract--I just don't agree with how it is taken advantage of by a bloated federal government.

Wrong. Committing murder causes direct harm to another citizen. Not taking my taxes does not do that.

Do you understand the failings of a two-party electoral system ruled by wealth and demagogues? If you really believe that you have a "choice," then clearly you do not.

You claimed that it was created from grants, which it was not. Just because I pointed out that it was a creation of the DOD does not mean that I was saying it didn't benefit from federal money.

Yes, because that's exactly what this country was like before 1913. Africa.

Check your history; with the exception of a brief period during the Civil War, this country existed without federal income taxes until 1913. That's 139 years, including the time period where we had the most growth and innovation of a transportation infrastructure in our entire history.

If you eliminate a federal income tax, then the states become responsible for their own roads, railways, etc.

Try thinking out of the box you've trapped your brain in for once.

Again, thanks for the civics lesson; I'll be sure to pass it on at the next protest I participate in.

Wrong, yet again. There are numerous differences between federal income tax and state income tax, with probably the most important being:

State income tax is not used to affect the entire country. So, for example, someone living in Alabama could choose to move to California because California allows state-funded stem cell research. Conversely, someone could move from California to Alabama because they prefer to live in a state that does not allow same-sex marriages. The side-effect of a system like that--one we had until 1913--is a country that allows for greater diversity of freedoms for its citizens. More direct change via the democratic process due to a smaller base of voters and less interference on a broad scale.

 

Easy there killer. In principal, how are state taxes fine with you, but not federal taxes? What you mentioned were just excuses on why it's OK for the states to take your money. Fundamentally, they both tax your money and spend it on bull**** most of the time (eg several states are going broke because they can't keep a budget just like the fed).