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This Just In - Documents Show Berger Nixed Attacks On Bin Laden

Old 07-23-2004, 12:24 PM
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This Just In - Documents Show Berger Nixed Attacks On Bin Laden

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Old 07-23-2004, 12:34 PM
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thanks for that update, scott! lol
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Old 07-23-2004, 12:39 PM
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Is this what you're referring to:


Publication:The New York Sun; Date:Jul 23, 2004; Section:Editorial & Opinion; Page:10

The Boldness of the President

Reading the report of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, we couldn’t help thinking of Justice Scalia’s great dissent in Morrison v. Olson. It’s the case in which the Supreme Court upheld the idea of an independent prosecutor. Justice Scalia warned of the danger that unleashing an uncontrollable prosecutor against a president could shake his courage. “Perhaps the boldness of the President himself will not be affected — though I am not so sure,” he warned.

Well, look now to what the 9/11 report has to say about the man to whom President Clinton, under attack by an independent counsel,delegated so much in respect of national security, Samuel “Sandy” Berger. The report cites a 1998 meeting between Mr. Berger and the director of central intelligence, George Tenet, at which Mr. Tenet presented a plan to capture Osama bin Laden.

“In his meeting with Tenet, Berger focused most, however, on the question of what was to be done with Bin Ladin if he were actually captured. He worried that the hard evidence against Bin Ladin was still skimpy and that there was a danger of snatching him and bringing him to the United States only to see him acquitted,” the report says, citing a May 1, 1998, Central Intelligence Agency memo summarizing the weekly meeting between Messrs. Berger and Tenet.

In June of 1999, another plan for action against Mr. bin Laden was on the table. The potential target was a Qaeda terrorist camp in Afghanistan known as Tarnak Farms. The commission report released yesterday cites Mr. Berger’s “handwritten notes on the meeting paper” referring to “the presence of 7 to 11 families in the Tarnak Farms facility, which could mean 60-65 casualties.”According to the Berger notes, “if he responds, we’re blamed.”

On December 4, 1999, the National Security Council’s counterterrorism coordinator, Richard Clarke, sent Mr. Berger a memo suggesting a strike in the last week of 1999 against Al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan. Reports the commission: “In the margin next to Clarke’s suggestion to attack Al Qaeda facilities in the week before January 1, 2000, Berger wrote, ‘no.’ ”

In August of 2000, Mr. Berger was presented with another possible plan for attacking Mr. bin Laden.This time, the plan would be based on aerial surveillance from a “Predator” drone. Reports the commission: “In the memo’s margin,Berger wrote that before considering action, ‘I will want more than verified location: we will need, at least, data on pattern of movements to provide some assurance he will remain in place.’ ”

In other words, according to the commission report, Mr. Berger was presented with plans to take action against the threat of Al Qaeda four separate times — Spring 1998, June 1999, December 1999, and August 2000. Each time, Mr. Berger was an obstacle to action. Had he been a little less reluctant to act, a little more open to taking pre-emptive action, maybe the 2,973 killed in the September 11, 2001, attacks would be alive today.
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Old 07-23-2004, 12:40 PM
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Continued....

It really doesn’t matter now what was in the documents from the National Archives that Mr. Berger says he inadvertently misplaced. The evidence in the commission’s report yesterday is more than enough to embarrass him thoroughly.He is a hardworking, warm man with a wonderful family, but his background as a trade lawyer and his dovish, legalistic and political instincts made him, in retrospect,the tragically wrong man to be making national security decisions for America in wartime.That Senator Kerry had Mr. Berger as a campaign foreign policy adviser even before the archives scandal is enough to raise doubts about the senator’s judgment.

Neither Mr.Berger nor any other American is to blame for the deaths of Americans on September 11, 2001. The moral fault lies only with the terrorists, not with the victims.With the war still on,one can’t help but to ponder who might best defend the country going forward, and how.

The commission’s report contains plenty of other valuable information. Many of the recommendations — to move operations functions to the Department of Defense from the CIA, to speed the transition between administrations so that key defense positions are not left vacant, to stress “widespread political participation”in the Arab and Muslim world,to declassify the intelligence budget, to provide a written national security transition handover memo when administrations change — make sense.

Other aspects of the report, including the absence of serious recommendations for dealing with the terrorist threats from Syria or Iran, are harder to understand. The report is being taken seriously for its political ramifications for the Bush administration and for its policy recommendations. But perhaps its greatest value is

as a history — more, a sad epitaph — of the Clinton-Berger administration.

Why was it Mr. Berger rather than President Clinton himself making all these judgment calls? As the report puts it, these decisions “were made by the Clinton administration under extremely difficult domestic political circumstances.Opponents were seeking the president’s impeachment.”


One can blame the special prosecutor law or Mr. Clinton for agreeing to name a special prosecutor, or one can blame the underlying reckless behavior by Mr. Clinton that got him into the “difficult domestic political circumstances.” Or one can blame the Republican Congress. No matter what one’s view of the underlying merits, it is hard to deny that one of the costs to the country was a preoccupied president.There’s no guarantee that, in the absence of the scandal and the prosecutor, Mr. Clinton would have acted against Mr. bin Laden. But the chances would have been at least somewhat increased, and it would have been Mr. Clinton rather than Mr. Berger making the call.

The boldness of the president, in Justice Scalia’s phrase,had been lost,and the man left in charge, Mr. Berger, was not up to it. When we think of the repairs that need to be made in the coming months, it is of this: The need to carry on our national politics with an eye to protecting the boldness of our leaders and particularly in a time of war. It is something to think about amid one of the bitterest, most adhominem political seasons in the history of the Republic.
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Old 07-23-2004, 12:45 PM
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Or this perhaps...

http://www.gopusa.com/news/2004/july..._website.shtml
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Old 07-23-2004, 01:13 PM
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http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/20/berger.probe/

Berger, who was national security adviser during President Clinton's second term, said in a statement Monday that the removal of the papers was unintentional.

He said he returned everything he had after the National Archives told him documents were missing, "except for a few documents that apparently I had accidentally discarded."

Removal unintentional...say again...how?

Accidentally discarded top secret National Archives documents.....how and why?


Can't this be punished by the death penalty?
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Old 07-23-2004, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Mach5WRX
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/20/berger.probe/




Removal unintentional...say again...how?

Accidentally discarded top secret National Archives documents.....how and why?


Can't this be punished by the death penalty?

I got this from someone else:

Under 18 USC 793(f), a felony statute, gross negligence is the standard:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There's another entire thread on this too if you're eager to find more:

https://www.i-club.com/forums/teh-politics-forum-114/clinton-advisor-sandy-berger-took-important-terror-memos-66489/


Mach5WRX, you're military, correct?

Ever held sensitive information (secret clearance and higher) before and remember the checks and balances for everything?

My point is... make no mistake about the fact there was NO "honest mistake" made on Berger's part. Every note, clipping or piece of toilet paper in that room is deemed classified unless otherwise noted.

Last edited by Salty; 07-23-2004 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 07-23-2004, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Salty


Mach5WRX, you're military, correct?

Ever held sensitive information (secret clearance and higher) before and remember the checks and balances for everything?

Yep...I'm an Army MP by MOS but just got done being my BN's S-2 for a year.

I have high level clearance...I wouldn't go home at night till I triple checked everything.

I wouldn't fair well in prison.

Last edited by Mach5WRX; 07-23-2004 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 07-23-2004, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Mach5WRX
Yep...I'm an Army MP by MOS but just got done being my BN's S-2 for a year.

I have high level clearance...I wouldn't go home at night till I triple everything.

I wouldn't fair well in prison.

Exactly my point.

Being in one paticular job as an 11b, i had a secret clearance and had to check my gargo pockets now and then if you know what i mean.

When you're an NSA and hold a level TS SCI type clearance or something similar you know you're playing with fire. There's no passing the back on this one as far as im concerned... Berger stepped on his dick pure and simple.
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Old 07-23-2004, 01:53 PM
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Angry BS on the unintentional call

Sandy Berger's statement that he unintentionally removed classified documents is total crap! As a military member with a classified clearance, I can tell you that if one of us [military] decided to STEAL classified information is because we intended to do it. I don't think it is possible to mistakenly put classified material in your pocket. Also, if you plan to steal classified info, you better disapear because you will be caught and swiftly prosecuted. Berger's 'incident" is a perfect example of how damn democrats get away with murder.

For all you liberals: How can some of you defend what Berger has done? The facts are the facts and regardless of the timing (when this issue surfaced) the truth has surfaced. Any attempts used by either party to distort information is very wrong and this incident is a perfect example.

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Old 07-23-2004, 02:13 PM
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like i have said to CEO's. CFO's COO's and other such people

policy is policy if you break it you face it front and center.

Dude broke policy, the policy is very well thought out and implemented in the military and intel agencies, this is what those agencies live off of, with out their policies they are nothing, with out strict adherence to said policies they are nothing. Dude broke policy, dude should now face that same policy.

Politics not withstanding
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Old 07-23-2004, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by dr3d1zzl3
like i have said to CEO's. CFO's COO's and other such people

policy is policy if you break it you face it front and center.

Dude broke policy, the policy is very well thought out and implemented in the military and intel agencies, this is what those agencies live off of, with out their policies they are nothing, with out strict adherence to said policies they are nothing. Dude broke policy, dude should now face that same policy.

Politics not withstanding

Very well said. He messed up bad, so he must pay. Everyone else does, especially when it comes to the mishandling of sensitive government info.

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Old 07-23-2004, 02:16 PM
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I don't think you'll find too many liberals defending him, he did a very stupid thing.


Almost as stupid as the stuff the Bush administrations been doing.
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Old 07-23-2004, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by psoper
I don't think you'll find too many liberals defending him, he did a very stupid thing.


Almost as stupid as the stuff the Bush administrations been doing.

And this statement is exactly how liberal's have been handling the situation. Instead of facing the fact on Berger's actions they'd rather change the subject and elude to the Bush Administration.

Classic 2nd grade.... errr....liberal remark from you, psoper!

Yes we already know the Bush admin sucks blah, blah, blah...
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Old 07-23-2004, 03:00 PM
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No, I guess you're right. Most liberals don't defend Berger, they just don't face the facts and try to justify their arguments by saying that "it is bizzare how the leak about Berger surfaced at such a convenient time". As if it mattered when it surfaced, the guy was playing classic democratic BS and got caught. If the Bush admin decides to use this incident and political firepower, then they have the right to.

To be honest, I just had enough of both parties! They play stupid games and do stupid things. What this country's goverment needs is to be revamped from the bottom up. I get so frustrated trying to figure out all the crap they do and then try to justify. I am republican and proud of it but I still find big faults with the way buisiness is done. Bush is a good president but by far perfect, I do appreciate that he actually has ***** unlike Clinton, Kerry and the rest of the liberal cheerleaders. I think that in order for this country to get back on the right track, the people have to be listened to a little more. In my eyes, trying to fix domestic problems first is far more important than trying to save other countries asses from the fire. None of us here pay taxes to ensure Iraqi's have a better life, we pay them to ensure we [ citizens] have a better life. I'm tired of being deployed [US NAvy] over seas to fight pointless wars and have my shipmates and friends killed by some low life with a bomb strapped. ....................................Okay, I'm pissed off. Sorry but it's just that I hate whats going on in our world right now. I'm done.

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