An Inconvenient Truth
VIP Member
iTrader: (12)
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,642
From: CAL - California
Car Info: AWD & RWD JDM
iClub Silver Vendor
iTrader: (25)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 15,494
From: Participating in some Anarchy!
Car Info: 2005 LGT wagon
Originally Posted by Keisatsu
again Paul, how can you possibly believe that we aren't dramatically increasing the rate of global warming. I'm not arguing that it is not natural, I'm arguing that we are speeding up the process.
500 years ago we did not have cars, therefor we MUST be introducing unatural levels of co2 gasses, no?
500 years ago we did not have cars, therefor we MUST be introducing unatural levels of co2 gasses, no?
Feel better?
Gooood...
Look at the chart I posted.
It clearly shows a reaccuring pattern of hot and cold cyclces.
It also shows that the level of CO2 & CH3(methane for those that went to public school) waxes/wanes.
We are entering one of these hot cycles, but to say humans are causing it is pure poppycock.
Yes, I said poppycock.
Remember, matter is neither created nor destroyed. It simply shifts from one form/phase to another.
There is a finite amount of CO2 on this planet, in all of it's various forms.
The CO2 that humans are releasing today is the same CO2 that was released 125,000/225,000/325,000 years ago.
If you believe that humans are the sole cause or even the majority cause of Global warming, you also believe that ALGORE invented the intaRnet.
I gotta go finish building a 500hp EJ25.
VIP Member
iTrader: (12)
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,642
From: CAL - California
Car Info: AWD & RWD JDM
Originally Posted by ryball
It has been over 100 in Sacramento for the past week and I think it's because I only have one cat.
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/s...es&match=exact
ALSO:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/24/op...rssnyt&emc=rss
excerpt:
'This month the Climate Change Science Program, the Bush administration's coordinating agency for global-warming research, declared it had found "clear evidence of human influences on the climate system." '
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,687
From: Land 'O' the Ports, Orygun
Car Info: Broken ass stock '02 WRX
Originally Posted by Paul@dbtuned
Calm down, take a deeeeeep breath.....
If you believe that humans are the sole cause or even the majority cause of Global warming, you also believe that ALGORE invented the intaRnet.
If you believe that humans are the sole cause or even the majority cause of Global warming, you also believe that ALGORE invented the intaRnet.
The c02 that is being introduced into the atmosphere by humans is almost ALL from fossil fuels, which would normally be buried underground and not in earths atmosphere.
I think this graph will be more than convincing for the Global Warming argument:
:banana:
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,687
From: Land 'O' the Ports, Orygun
Car Info: Broken ass stock '02 WRX
Originally Posted by T-Will
I think it's pretty self-righteous to think that us measly humans can control something as big as the earth's climate.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 933
From: Sacramento
Car Info: Stock Legacy Turbo Wagon Silver
Originally Posted by Hops
I generally stay out of this forum, but this topic is too good to pass up. There are four separate issues that make up the global warming debate.
1) Is Earth getting warmer?
2) Is man causing it?
3) Is it a bad thing?
4) Is there anything man can do about it?
The answer to #1 is yes, but not much. Many of the so-called symptoms of global warming began before we started burning fuels. We are in a warming cycle, before the next cooling cycle starts, but the current rate of warming is not necessarily alarming at this point. The alarming part is still theoretical as of today.
#2: There is almost as much data to say that man is not causing it as man is causing it. This question is so politically charged that some of the best counterevidence does not get fair coverage. Natural evidence suggests that carbon dioxide is a lagging rather than leading indicator of warming. In other words warming might cause more carbon dioxide and not the other way around.
#3: There are bad things about global warming, and I'm sure Al is the most qualified guy to explain to us what they are. Warming has benefits as well, maybe not to oceanfront property but to growing seasons in many parts of the world. Unfortunately, the media are quick to tell us that the recent hurricane seasons are caused by global warming, when even researchers whose models suggest a relationship recognize that the natural oceanic cycles are a more dominant force.
#4: This is the most important question, because at this point there isn't much we can do about it. If the earth is already screwed up by what has been done to date, we cannot reverse it. In fact, unless everyone is ready to start living in huts and farming, we cannot really slow the rate of emissions now. The countries that signed Kyoto are already falling well short of meeting their targets, and developing countries like China and India are just going to pollute in greater amounts.
Criticize the Bush administration all you like, but the statement it released several years back - that our best strategy at this point is to learn how to adapt to global warming - is pragmatic. People don't drive cars (and jet skis) and buy goods transported from around the globe because they like to pollute. They do it because it makes for a rather nice lifestyle. Fossil fuels make us all wealthier because they enable transportation, which enables trade. The decision to curb fossil fuel consumption is the decision to live more poorly. This is pretty basic economics.
1) Is Earth getting warmer?
2) Is man causing it?
3) Is it a bad thing?
4) Is there anything man can do about it?
The answer to #1 is yes, but not much. Many of the so-called symptoms of global warming began before we started burning fuels. We are in a warming cycle, before the next cooling cycle starts, but the current rate of warming is not necessarily alarming at this point. The alarming part is still theoretical as of today.
#2: There is almost as much data to say that man is not causing it as man is causing it. This question is so politically charged that some of the best counterevidence does not get fair coverage. Natural evidence suggests that carbon dioxide is a lagging rather than leading indicator of warming. In other words warming might cause more carbon dioxide and not the other way around.
#3: There are bad things about global warming, and I'm sure Al is the most qualified guy to explain to us what they are. Warming has benefits as well, maybe not to oceanfront property but to growing seasons in many parts of the world. Unfortunately, the media are quick to tell us that the recent hurricane seasons are caused by global warming, when even researchers whose models suggest a relationship recognize that the natural oceanic cycles are a more dominant force.
#4: This is the most important question, because at this point there isn't much we can do about it. If the earth is already screwed up by what has been done to date, we cannot reverse it. In fact, unless everyone is ready to start living in huts and farming, we cannot really slow the rate of emissions now. The countries that signed Kyoto are already falling well short of meeting their targets, and developing countries like China and India are just going to pollute in greater amounts.
Criticize the Bush administration all you like, but the statement it released several years back - that our best strategy at this point is to learn how to adapt to global warming - is pragmatic. People don't drive cars (and jet skis) and buy goods transported from around the globe because they like to pollute. They do it because it makes for a rather nice lifestyle. Fossil fuels make us all wealthier because they enable transportation, which enables trade. The decision to curb fossil fuel consumption is the decision to live more poorly. This is pretty basic economics.
Hello, welcome to the forum! Good stuff, stick around.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 933
From: Sacramento
Car Info: Stock Legacy Turbo Wagon Silver
My .02? We'll nuke eachother long before we run out of gas or are destroyed by some crazy natural disaster. So, I'm going to buy a boat as soon as I free up some funds.
A lot of the evidence suggests that Human emissions of greenhouse gases make up fraction of the total.
http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2...l-gore-read-ba
http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2...l-gore-read-ba
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,312
From: UCIrvine
Car Info: '05 Crystal Grey Metallic WRX Sport Wagon
I've posted this before, but I'll try again I guess. The issue with humans causing global warming is NOT that we are causing a phenomenon that never happens...there has always been thermodynamic shifts in the earth's atmosphere. However we are causing the changes to occur at an unprecedented rate; in other words we're affecting the kinetics of the issue. And that is certainly something to be worried about.
Originally Posted by MVWRX
I've posted this before, but I'll try again I guess. The issue with humans causing global warming is NOT that we are causing a phenomenon that never happens...there has always been thermodynamic shifts in the earth's atmosphere. However we are causing the changes to occur at an unprecedented rate; in other words we're affecting the kinetics of the issue. And that is certainly something to be worried about.
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,312
From: UCIrvine
Car Info: '05 Crystal Grey Metallic WRX Sport Wagon