An Inconvenient Truth
06-26-2006, 11:09 AM
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An Inconvenient Truth
just watched "An Inconvenient Truth" last night. Though I have pretty much been a firm believer in the global warming issue for as long as I can remember, I thought this movie was well put together and gave me some facts I had never known before (did you know the US vehicle emissions standards are LOWER than that of China's!!!)
anyway, check it out
http://www.climatecrisis.net/findatheater/
unfortunatly its not showing in a whole lot of theatres, but I still urge yo to check it out!
anyway, check it out
http://www.climatecrisis.net/findatheater/
unfortunatly its not showing in a whole lot of theatres, but I still urge yo to check it out!
06-26-2006, 11:36 AM
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did you know jet skis spew out about the same amount of emissions in 1 hour of usage vs. your average automobile does in 100,000 miles!?! i believe it is the same with most 2 stroke mobiles, including off road bikes.
Kerry favored new environmental laws which prohibited companies from making/selling such gross polluters. Bush was paid off by these corporations not to adopt such a law stating it would cost far too much to develop "new technology." why do you think so many off roaders/boaters voted Bush? the corporate backed campaigns saying that Kerry wanted to take away the off road fun...
Kerry favored new environmental laws which prohibited companies from making/selling such gross polluters. Bush was paid off by these corporations not to adopt such a law stating it would cost far too much to develop "new technology." why do you think so many off roaders/boaters voted Bush? the corporate backed campaigns saying that Kerry wanted to take away the off road fun...
06-26-2006, 11:48 AM
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Just know that you are hearing only one side of the issue with watching that movie. In some ways, worrying about global warming has raised allot of issues that have helped save allot of our environment from destruction. But, as far as worrying that we will melt or cause another ice age, very little to nothing is known, its mostly pure speculation based on statistics and computer models. I'm not a Bush supporter nor do I like offroad vehicles or gross polluters (I work in the environmental remediaton industry for god sakes), I just know what the truth is.
06-26-2006, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Cohnster
But, as far as worrying that we will melt or cause another ice age, very little to nothing is known, its mostly pure speculation based on statistics and computer models.
my .02
06-26-2006, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by blackbus
did you know jet skis spew out about the same amount of emissions in 1 hour of usage vs. your average automobile does in 100,000 miles!?! i believe it is the same with most 2 stroke mobiles, including off road bikes.
Kerry favored new environmental laws which prohibited companies from making/selling such gross polluters. Bush was paid off by these corporations not to adopt such a law stating it would cost far too much to develop "new technology." why do you think so many off roaders/boaters voted Bush? the corporate backed campaigns saying that Kerry wanted to take away the off road fun...
Kerry favored new environmental laws which prohibited companies from making/selling such gross polluters. Bush was paid off by these corporations not to adopt such a law stating it would cost far too much to develop "new technology." why do you think so many off roaders/boaters voted Bush? the corporate backed campaigns saying that Kerry wanted to take away the off road fun...
that is very intresting. where did you get this info from?
06-26-2006, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Keisatsu
That's exactly right, we don't know what will happen, but wouldn't it be better to err on the side of being overly cautious, than to possibly end up melting the antarctic/greenland and causing catostrophic flooding.
my .02
my .02
BUT, yes, I do concur, erring on the side of caution is a good thing. Just because most of global warming is heresay doesn't mean we shouldn't produce cleaner burning fuels and cars and emissions should be lower, its a good idea all around.
Edit: Oh, and I'd highly suggest snapping photos of the worlds glaciers before they all melt if you want to remember them, they are OUTTA HERE!
Last edited by Grimm; 06-26-2006 at 02:41 PM.
06-26-2006, 05:37 PM
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yeah, my fiance and I are thinking of going to antarctica for our honeymoon... we were thinking of this: http://www.alpineascents.com/vinson.asp
06-26-2006, 06:23 PM
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??? the link you provided has images that show in the last 200 years a dramatic rise in co2 concentrations ...
Most of the other graphs I cannot read as they aren't labeled for the layman, or im stupid.
Nearly every report EVER done on global warming has shown a dramatic spike of c02 concentrations in the last 150-200years, not normal levels found in ice cores from the last 450,000 years but much MUCH higher than that.
How can you possibly believe that all the industrial/vehicular emmisions are not changing anything?
My point is, yes "global warming" is probably a natural phenomenon. However, humans are speeding it up FAR faster and making it FAR worse than ever before.
Most of the other graphs I cannot read as they aren't labeled for the layman, or im stupid.
Nearly every report EVER done on global warming has shown a dramatic spike of c02 concentrations in the last 150-200years, not normal levels found in ice cores from the last 450,000 years but much MUCH higher than that.
How can you possibly believe that all the industrial/vehicular emmisions are not changing anything?
My point is, yes "global warming" is probably a natural phenomenon. However, humans are speeding it up FAR faster and making it FAR worse than ever before.
06-26-2006, 06:39 PM
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Try this one, homey:
Originally Posted by Petite, et all, 1999
The above diagram from Petite et al, 1999 shows the results of the 2623m ice core drilled above Lake Vostok by an international consortium. While not the first it is the most convincing demonstration of climatic changes in the last half million years.
It shows four cold periods and that we are rapidly approaching the peak of a fifth interglacial. Atmospheric CO2 and CH3 closely parallel temperature but do not appear to precede it. We are approaching the peak of a global warming phase which may be expected to peak within a thousand years or so. Warming began 11,000 years ago which does not seem to altogether coincide with the northern hemisphere where the Wisconsin Ice age began at times variously given as 50,000 yrs to 125,000 yrs bp, reached a maximum at 21,000yr and began to recede rapidly at 12,000yr.
It shows four cold periods and that we are rapidly approaching the peak of a fifth interglacial. Atmospheric CO2 and CH3 closely parallel temperature but do not appear to precede it. We are approaching the peak of a global warming phase which may be expected to peak within a thousand years or so. Warming began 11,000 years ago which does not seem to altogether coincide with the northern hemisphere where the Wisconsin Ice age began at times variously given as 50,000 yrs to 125,000 yrs bp, reached a maximum at 21,000yr and began to recede rapidly at 12,000yr.
06-26-2006, 07:23 PM
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I don't like polluting the world as much as you guys, BUT according to natural selection, if we, HUMANS, decide to cause our extinction, then it's in the best interest of the Earth. We have nothing to offer to the planet, all we do is take. Earth will do just fine and dandy without us.
If it happens, then it happens, we have no one to blame but our selves.
If it happens, then it happens, we have no one to blame but our selves.
06-26-2006, 08:30 PM
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again Paul, how can you possibly believe that we aren't dramatically increasing the rate of global warming. I'm not arguing that it is not natural, I'm arguing that we are speeding up the process.
500 years ago we did not have cars, therefor we MUST be introducing unatural levels of co2 gasses, no?
500 years ago we did not have cars, therefor we MUST be introducing unatural levels of co2 gasses, no?
06-26-2006, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Keisatsu
500 years ago we did not have cars, therefor we MUST be introducing unatural levels of co2 gasses, no?
06-26-2006, 09:57 PM
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I generally stay out of this forum, but this topic is too good to pass up. There are four separate issues that make up the global warming debate.
1) Is Earth getting warmer?
2) Is man causing it?
3) Is it a bad thing?
4) Is there anything man can do about it?
The answer to #1 is yes, but not much. Many of the so-called symptoms of global warming began before we started burning fuels. We are in a warming cycle, before the next cooling cycle starts, but the current rate of warming is not necessarily alarming at this point. The alarming part is still theoretical as of today.
#2: There is almost as much data to say that man is not causing it as man is causing it. This question is so politically charged that some of the best counterevidence does not get fair coverage. Natural evidence suggests that carbon dioxide is a lagging rather than leading indicator of warming. In other words warming might cause more carbon dioxide and not the other way around.
#3: There are bad things about global warming, and I'm sure Al is the most qualified guy to explain to us what they are. Warming has benefits as well, maybe not to oceanfront property but to growing seasons in many parts of the world. Unfortunately, the media are quick to tell us that the recent hurricane seasons are caused by global warming, when even researchers whose models suggest a relationship recognize that the natural oceanic cycles are a more dominant force.
#4: This is the most important question, because at this point there isn't much we can do about it. If the earth is already screwed up by what has been done to date, we cannot reverse it. In fact, unless everyone is ready to start living in huts and farming, we cannot really slow the rate of emissions now. The countries that signed Kyoto are already falling well short of meeting their targets, and developing countries like China and India are just going to pollute in greater amounts.
Criticize the Bush administration all you like, but the statement it released several years back - that our best strategy at this point is to learn how to adapt to global warming - is pragmatic. People don't drive cars (and jet skis) and buy goods transported from around the globe because they like to pollute. They do it because it makes for a rather nice lifestyle. Fossil fuels make us all wealthier because they enable transportation, which enables trade. The decision to curb fossil fuel consumption is the decision to live more poorly. This is pretty basic economics.
1) Is Earth getting warmer?
2) Is man causing it?
3) Is it a bad thing?
4) Is there anything man can do about it?
The answer to #1 is yes, but not much. Many of the so-called symptoms of global warming began before we started burning fuels. We are in a warming cycle, before the next cooling cycle starts, but the current rate of warming is not necessarily alarming at this point. The alarming part is still theoretical as of today.
#2: There is almost as much data to say that man is not causing it as man is causing it. This question is so politically charged that some of the best counterevidence does not get fair coverage. Natural evidence suggests that carbon dioxide is a lagging rather than leading indicator of warming. In other words warming might cause more carbon dioxide and not the other way around.
#3: There are bad things about global warming, and I'm sure Al is the most qualified guy to explain to us what they are. Warming has benefits as well, maybe not to oceanfront property but to growing seasons in many parts of the world. Unfortunately, the media are quick to tell us that the recent hurricane seasons are caused by global warming, when even researchers whose models suggest a relationship recognize that the natural oceanic cycles are a more dominant force.
#4: This is the most important question, because at this point there isn't much we can do about it. If the earth is already screwed up by what has been done to date, we cannot reverse it. In fact, unless everyone is ready to start living in huts and farming, we cannot really slow the rate of emissions now. The countries that signed Kyoto are already falling well short of meeting their targets, and developing countries like China and India are just going to pollute in greater amounts.
Criticize the Bush administration all you like, but the statement it released several years back - that our best strategy at this point is to learn how to adapt to global warming - is pragmatic. People don't drive cars (and jet skis) and buy goods transported from around the globe because they like to pollute. They do it because it makes for a rather nice lifestyle. Fossil fuels make us all wealthier because they enable transportation, which enables trade. The decision to curb fossil fuel consumption is the decision to live more poorly. This is pretty basic economics.