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Old Sep 29, 2004 | 12:15 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Salty
No kidding...

You forgot Somalia and Grenada
My bad.

BTW My first PLT Sgt was with Ranger Bat during the Grenada fiasco. He said it was one of the most messed up missions he participated in.
Old Sep 29, 2004 | 12:34 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Oaf
My bad.

BTW My first PLT Sgt was with Ranger Bat during the Grenada fiasco. He said it was one of the most messed up missions he participated in.
Yeah I’ve heard stories too... Panama was damn near the same from what I heard. The media almost completely compromised BOTH missions while planes where in flight!

The Gipper made the call, the 82nd, 75th, Marines, SF and SEALs were in flight within 18hours for missions that were planned in less than 2 days! Chalks actually got scratched hours before greenlight because the media opened their mouth that something was going down. Ground forces turned potential DZ's and LZ's into death traps which forced many to land on the FLS.

Reason #39392 why media and military operations just don't mix
Old Sep 29, 2004 | 12:42 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Salty
Yeah I’ve heard stories too... Panama was damn near the same from what I heard. The media almost completely compromised BOTH missions while planes where in flight!

The Gipper made the call, the 82nd, 75th, Marines, SF and SEALs were in flight within 18hours for missions that were planned in less than 2 days! Chalks actually got scratched hours before greenlight because the media opened their mouth that something was going down. Ground forces turned potential DZ's and LZ's into death traps which forced many to land on the FLS.

Reason #39392 why media and military operations just don't mix
No shiznit...remember the CNN showing live feeds of the SF or SEAL guys landing in Somalia?
Old Sep 29, 2004 | 12:49 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Oaf
No shiznit...remember the CNN showing live feeds of the SF or SEAL guys landing in Somalia?
YES! CNN was on the beach when a couple teams hit the sand.

EDIT: But media is a good thing, right?! [/sarcasm] This is a good topic for this thread because of the threads purpose and point.

If most of us are in agreement that the U.S. is a neutered force then why do we need all this anti-Iraqi coverage to begin with? It can't be good for the mission.

Last edited by Salty; Sep 29, 2004 at 12:54 PM.
Old Sep 29, 2004 | 07:12 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Salty
YES! CNN was on the beach when a couple teams hit the sand.

EDIT: But media is a good thing, right?! [/sarcasm] This is a good topic for this thread because of the threads purpose and point.

If most of us are in agreement that the U.S. is a neutered force then why do we need all this anti-Iraqi coverage to begin with? It can't be good for the mission.
Anyone? No takers? I thought someone would hop on this.
Old Sep 29, 2004 | 08:15 PM
  #36  
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I don't see where you guys are going with this, are you saying we don't need any press or media?

Maybe our country would be better off if nobody knew anything about the rest of the world, or anything at all outside their work and school?

Sometimes I really just can't understand what you guys want from life.
Old Sep 29, 2004 | 09:06 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by psoper
I don't see where you guys are going with this, are you saying we don't need any press or media?

Maybe our country would be better off if nobody knew anything about the rest of the world, or anything at all outside their work and school?

Sometimes I really just can't understand what you guys want from life.
I can't/won't speak for Salty; I think we digressed a tad.
A responsible media is paramount to a free society.
Responsible to me means bias-free, no-spin, "just the facts" news being made available to people.
There is not one channel on the boob tube that meets this criteria, and very few papers/magazines at the national level.

But reporting during war time or even durning minor millitary operations has to be, for lack of a better word, restricted.
Look at the example of Somalia; our troop's lives were put into grave danger by showing the seaborne invasion on live TV!
The reporters were waiting on the beach for our guys to land & were shining flood lights on the poor b@stards.

I distinctly remember the look on operative's face as a CNN crew tried to interview him as came ashore; it was a look of confusion, disbelief, and contempt.

During Gulf War v1.0, CNN et al were our primary source of information...and if the good guys had access, if safe to say that the bad guys did too.

Please agree with me that our right to information should have been a very low priority in this & similar situations.

I hope this explains my position better.

We now return you to the thread already in progress...
Old Sep 29, 2004 | 10:29 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Oaf
I can't/won't speak for Salty; I think we digressed a tad.
A responsible media is paramount to a free society.
Responsible to me means bias-free, no-spin, "just the facts" news being made available to people.
There is not one channel on the boob tube that meets this criteria, and very few papers/magazines at the national level.

But reporting during war time or even durning minor millitary operations has to be, for lack of a better word, restricted.
Look at the example of Somalia; our troop's lives were put into grave danger by showing the seaborne invasion on live TV!
The reporters were waiting on the beach for our guys to land & were shining flood lights on the poor b@stards.

I distinctly remember the look on operative's face as a CNN crew tried to interview him as came ashore; it was a look of confusion, disbelief, and contempt.

During Gulf War v1.0, CNN et al were our primary source of information...and if the good guys had access, if safe to say that the bad guys did too.

Please agree with me that our right to information should have been a very low priority in this & similar situations.

I hope this explains my position better.

We now return you to the thread already in progress...
Oaf's on the right track with my point...

I know we need the media, psoper, but seeing how we know our military is limited in every aspect, why do we keep an extremely close eye on them and the mission? I know, I know about freedom of the press but it's a catch22 during a war.

I can understand keeping a close eye on our troops if the media wasn't anywhere near as biased as it is, but it's ultimately damning to the troops morale and mission.

You can be damn sure we'll hear about the handful of soldiers that farted in the wind before we hear anything about the 100,000+ doing their jobs above & beyond the call of duty. Likewise, you'll hear about how a handful of insurgent cells are on the brink of world domination. When everything's said and done, it can't be worth anything positive in the sandbox.

When you read that article in the Chronicle about another kidnaping and begin to shake your head in disbelief as to why we're in Iraq, there's a solider in Iraq losing morale because he has little support from you after having read that article.

Last edited by Salty; Sep 29, 2004 at 10:35 PM.
Old Sep 29, 2004 | 11:46 PM
  #39  
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What is with all this "our military is limited in every aspect" crap?

Our military is the best equipped, most technologically advanced, most capable fighting force the world has ever witnessed.

But if they are led by incompetent profiteers into illegal wars, things are bound to get stinky.

We posess far more "weapons of mass destruction" than any other country, we're the only country that's used nuclear weapons against civilian populations, we spend more of our GDP on weapons and military expenditures than any other country, and yet we are supposed to be the shining beacon of democracy and freedom with a free press and all that good stuff.

There is no such thing as a bias-free media, just as there are really no bias-free viewpoints on anything- but there are basic priciples of civilized behavior, sadly, those generally get thrown out in war.

The real problem is that war is a violation of the basic tennets of civilization itself.

The argument of "well would you have let Hitler run over the world?" no- because Hitler started wars against his neighbors, he was the responsible party and had to be stopped.

Even before that, whoever started a war was guilty of several internationally recognized crimes, but following WW2 there were several more international laws and agreements specifically intended to prevent such an event from recurring.

The Geneva and Nuremburg conventions established clear definietions of war crimes that the US is undebateably guilty of in the instance of Iraq

This administration has thrown out these few delicate ties that we as a nation held to civilization, they ridicule the UN, they refuse to recognize any international agreements on ANY subject- the simple fact that bushcheney inc. are not in prison is clear enough evidence for most of the world that our country has given up any pretense of wanting to see a peaceful world.

The US has become the preeminent threat to world peace under the imperial aspirations of the bush administration, this is clear in their policy statements and it is clear to just about everyone outside of this country, and its clear to at least half of the people within this country who have been voicing their opposition to this gang since they hijacked the white house 4 years ago.

All of our media has become almost a total mouthpiece for these criminals, and don't give me that "Bbbbut Dan Rather!!!" crap- he was clearly set up for the fall by someone who knew.

Our media is beyond biased- to such a degree that there are pretty much no viable opposition viewpoints being expressed, despite the clearly wrong direction the country is on.

Stifling the press is one of the classic first steps into totalatarianism, but at this point we're so far down that road already, nobody's noticing...and you'll all march right along in the interest of "National Security"


wake up- it's already happened, welcome to 1984+20.
Old Sep 30, 2004 | 06:47 AM
  #40  
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You missed the point.

BTW, the UN is responsible for more deaths, misery, and corruption than the US and you say that America is wrong for shunning them?
Old Sep 30, 2004 | 08:39 AM
  #41  
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Wow
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