Bush evesdropping story... do Americans actually care?
12-22-2005, 11:12 AM
#91
Originally Posted by lojasmo
Big "if" I think.
Last edited by subiedon; 12-22-2005 at 11:18 AM.
12-22-2005, 12:07 PM
#93
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Originally Posted by subiedon
yes it is...but who knows..........if given the chance now, and im the president of the PI....i'll do it in a heartbeat....sacrifice a little, swallow my pride for the benefit of all, it does not take a master's degree to decide on it.....
12-22-2005, 12:14 PM
#94
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Originally Posted by subiedon
ok lunch time....time for some good ole McDonalds.....yummm lol
12-22-2005, 01:11 PM
#95
Originally Posted by lojasmo
Hmm...maybe if you think things need to changed there, you should return...and run for office.
maybe like i said above, you should go to the opressed country and help them fight the U.S. if you hate america so much
12-22-2005, 01:23 PM
#96
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Originally Posted by subiedon
nah....im cool here, plus...i would probably lose since i know i'll be cheated in the elections, and if i win, i might be assasinated...its that bad
maybe like i said above, you should go to the opressed country and help them fight the U.S. if you hate america so much
maybe like i said above, you should go to the opressed country and help them fight the U.S. if you hate america so much
12-22-2005, 01:45 PM
#97
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Originally Posted by subiedon
one question, if you hate america so much, then why do you live here?? as for me i don't, which is why i moved from the PI to here...and never left since...
so why not go to the countries that america has oppressed and help them fight america instead of typing all these posts, at least you are fighting for your cause, don't go to peace rallies here in u.s soil, its not as fulfilling if you actually wen to the oppressed and helped
maybe you can fly to iraq and help drive away the u.s . forces, i dont' know...so much hate you have, then fight the U.S.
so why not go to the countries that america has oppressed and help them fight america instead of typing all these posts, at least you are fighting for your cause, don't go to peace rallies here in u.s soil, its not as fulfilling if you actually wen to the oppressed and helped
maybe you can fly to iraq and help drive away the u.s . forces, i dont' know...so much hate you have, then fight the U.S.
Noone said they hate America; it is very patriotic to be critical of the government (at least according to the founding fathers, I think they count...) and it should be met with respectful discussion, not an arrogant and ignorant "If you hate it so much leave" response.
12-22-2005, 01:53 PM
#98
somehow, i got that impression from you....maybe its just me....have you guys done anything to pursue your issues with the government? im sure you all vote, but besides that....or posting here is the only way you voice out your opinions/feelings about the administration and its so called "injustices" as you all have put it...
btw, i never meant to be arrogant, maybe i am ignorant, and i continue to acquire knowledge and hopefully do something that would benefit and my family....because the bottom line is, that's all i care for..i've got so much to worry about than to meddle in other people's business
btw, i never meant to be arrogant, maybe i am ignorant, and i continue to acquire knowledge and hopefully do something that would benefit and my family....because the bottom line is, that's all i care for..i've got so much to worry about than to meddle in other people's business
12-22-2005, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by subiedon
somehow, i got that impression from you....maybe its just me....have you guys done anything to pursue your issues with the government?
12-22-2005, 02:47 PM
#100
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Who said anything about hating America? I thought this post was about the legal implications of Bush eavesdropping on America and/or if Americans actually care. If I hated America I would leave but loving America is not a blind love where you don't care if it falls into ruin. This is the 'Land of the Free' not the 'Land of the safe but strictly controlled' (I think that is the motto of Singapore but I may be mistaken 
). It is the same old rhetoric; "If you are think Iraq was a mistake then you hate our troops", "If you don't blindly accept everything the government does then you hate America". Our freedoms are what we should be trying to protect, if we give up what makes America great what is the point? As I said in my earlier post, Bush has every right under law to aquire any information he needs without delay or incumberence but there is oversight to make sure that his reasons are valid; he chose to use an illegal method to avoid scrutiny. The checks and balances system is another thing that makes America great, and needs to be protected.
And, no, I am not doing anything about it but I can still have an opinion. I don't go out and fight crime either but I am against it.
). It is the same old rhetoric; "If you are think Iraq was a mistake then you hate our troops", "If you don't blindly accept everything the government does then you hate America". Our freedoms are what we should be trying to protect, if we give up what makes America great what is the point? As I said in my earlier post, Bush has every right under law to aquire any information he needs without delay or incumberence but there is oversight to make sure that his reasons are valid; he chose to use an illegal method to avoid scrutiny. The checks and balances system is another thing that makes America great, and needs to be protected.And, no, I am not doing anything about it but I can still have an opinion. I don't go out and fight crime either but I am against it.
12-22-2005, 03:16 PM
#101
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Originally Posted by The Iconoclast
Who said anything about hating America? I thought this post was about the legal implications of Bush eavesdropping on America and/or if Americans actually care. If I hated America I would leave but loving America is not a blind love where you don't care if it falls into ruin. This is the 'Land of the Free' not the 'Land of the safe but strictly controlled' (I think that is the motto of Singapore but I may be mistaken ). It is the same old rhetoric; "If you are think Iraq was a mistake then you hate our troops", "If you don't blindly accept everything the government does then you hate America". Our freedoms are what we should be trying to protect, if we give up what makes America great what is the point? As I said in my earlier post, Bush has every right under law to aquire any information he needs without delay or incumberence but there is oversight to make sure that his reasons are valid; he chose to use an illegal method to avoid scrutiny. The checks and balances system is another thing that makes America great, and needs to be protected.
And, no, I am not doing anything about it but I can still have an opinion. I don't go out and fight crime either but I am against it.
). It is the same old rhetoric; "If you are think Iraq was a mistake then you hate our troops", "If you don't blindly accept everything the government does then you hate America". Our freedoms are what we should be trying to protect, if we give up what makes America great what is the point? As I said in my earlier post, Bush has every right under law to aquire any information he needs without delay or incumberence but there is oversight to make sure that his reasons are valid; he chose to use an illegal method to avoid scrutiny. The checks and balances system is another thing that makes America great, and needs to be protected.And, no, I am not doing anything about it but I can still have an opinion. I don't go out and fight crime either but I am against it.
Well and truly said, Iconoclast. Bravo.
Somebody else said something similar:
Originally Posted by Thomas Jefferson
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism
Originally Posted by iconoclast
have you guys had an era where you were satisfied as far as how the goverment ran things for you...ie the reagan, nixon, clinton etc...
He had to cut social services to do it, but he turned the biggest budget defecit ever into a budget surplus.
Very few United states servicepersons died in combat under Clinton
He engineered a system by which gays can serve in the armed forces.
Some legislation which came to pass during the Clinton administration:
FMLA
the Brady bill
NAFTA and GATT
I really did like Carter, though....still do.
Last edited by lojasmo; 12-22-2005 at 03:34 PM.
12-22-2005, 03:16 PM
#102
Originally Posted by The Iconoclast
Who said anything about hating America? I thought this post was about the legal implications of Bush eavesdropping on America and/or if Americans actually care. If I hated America I would leave but loving America is not a blind love where you don't care if it falls into ruin. This is the 'Land of the Free' not the 'Land of the safe but strictly controlled' (I think that is the motto of Singapore but I may be mistaken ). It is the same old rhetoric; "If you are think Iraq was a mistake then you hate our troops", "If you don't blindly accept everything the government does then you hate America". Our freedoms are what we should be trying to protect, if we give up what makes America great what is the point? As I said in my earlier post, Bush has every right under law to aquire any information he needs without delay or incumberence but there is oversight to make sure that his reasons are valid; he chose to use an illegal method to avoid scrutiny. The checks and balances system is another thing that makes America great, and needs to be protected.
And, no, I am not doing anything about it but I can still have an opinion. I don't go out and fight crime either but I am against it.
). It is the same old rhetoric; "If you are think Iraq was a mistake then you hate our troops", "If you don't blindly accept everything the government does then you hate America". Our freedoms are what we should be trying to protect, if we give up what makes America great what is the point? As I said in my earlier post, Bush has every right under law to aquire any information he needs without delay or incumberence but there is oversight to make sure that his reasons are valid; he chose to use an illegal method to avoid scrutiny. The checks and balances system is another thing that makes America great, and needs to be protected.And, no, I am not doing anything about it but I can still have an opinion. I don't go out and fight crime either but I am against it.
its good that you guys care, i do myself, its where i live now and where i raise my children, i want it to be the best as it can be for them...i just hope the government will do what's right for the country and its people, however, most of you really sound aggravated, angry as if you loath the government...
and if eavesdropping on americans is a way of making the nation's security better to a certain extent of privacy then so be it...but the consequences should also be weighted out as to how far it can be practiced, or like you said oversight and validity
another question....have you guys had an era where you were satisfied as far as how the goverment ran things for you...ie the reagan, nixon, clinton etc...
seems like every president is always under scrutiny, whether he makes america great, or puts it into shame, im just confused why we even vote for them, and later on lose support for them....do you stick with the person you vote for, or do you have a change of heart, i mean you believed in him, and then later on you don't. has there been anyone you voted for/president that actually satisfied you as a citizen?
all these questions coz im ignorant
Last edited by subiedon; 12-22-2005 at 03:22 PM.
12-22-2005, 04:09 PM
#103
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I am not aggravated and loathesome of the government so much as of being called liberal or America hater if I suggest that the president of the United States should abide by the laws of the United States. I would consider myself a conservative on most topics however I am sure that I have some opinions that would be considered liberal. Anyone who doesn't disagree with anything from one group or the other is probably allowing themselves to be spoon fed rather than making their own independent decisions. I didn't particularly like Clinton but he did some good stuff, however he is generally credited with reducing the deficit singlehandedly by democrats who fail to notice that Bush Sr also raised taxes to start the ball rolling even after he said "no new taxes" - he saw that it was not viable and did what he had to do.
12-22-2005, 05:16 PM
#104
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Originally Posted by The Iconoclast
however he is generally credited with reducing the deficit singlehandedly by democrats who fail to notice that Bush Sr also raised taxes to start the ball rolling even after he said "no new taxes" - he saw that it was not viable and did what he had to do.
Originally Posted by Office of Budget Management
The President’s 2005 Budget proposes a federal budget deficit for the current fiscal year of $521 billion, which is about 4.5 percent of the nation’s gross domestic product (GDP). Without counting the Social Security surplus, the deficit in the current budget is $675 billion, or approximately 5.9 percent of GDP, and the second largest since World War II.
Last edited by lojasmo; 12-22-2005 at 05:19 PM.