Bush evesdropping story... do Americans actually care?
12-17-2005, 08:31 AM
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Bush evesdropping story... do Americans actually care?
Maybe it's only me, but I think it's fine. I think Americans are likely split 50/50 on this, but I haven't seen any opinion polls on it.
Actually, I've noticed a particular absense of polls on the usual news sites, and wonder why they aren't asking for popular opinion.
Rational thoughts or non-sensical liberal rants?
Actually, I've noticed a particular absense of polls on the usual news sites, and wonder why they aren't asking for popular opinion.
Rational thoughts or non-sensical liberal rants?
12-17-2005, 09:52 AM
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Yes, it's only you...and idiots like you.
It was shortly after this exact same thing came about during the Nixon administration when the Nixon ship started going down in flames.
It was shortly after this exact same thing came about during the Nixon administration when the Nixon ship started going down in flames.
12-17-2005, 09:54 AM
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I fully support it. People think that this is a new tactic for the most powerful man in the world. The only reason this has surfaced is because of the usual Bush witch hunt in the last few years.
Absolutely. Keeping tabs on those that may have connections to al Qaida is VITAL. The PA may not have prevented 9/11 had it existed but this may have and should be implemented till the end of time.
"This authorization is a vital tool in our war against the terrorists. It is critical to saving American lives. The American people expect me to do everything in my power, under our laws and Constitution, to protect them and their civil liberties and that is exactly what I will continue to do as long as I am president of the United States," Bush said.
Angry members of Congress have demanded an explanation of the program, first revealed in Friday's New York Times and whether the monitoring by the National Security Agency violates civil liberties.
Defending the program, Bush said in his address that it is used only to intercept the international communications of people inside the United States who have been determined to have "a clear link" to al- Qaida or related terrorist organizations.
Angry members of Congress have demanded an explanation of the program, first revealed in Friday's New York Times and whether the monitoring by the National Security Agency violates civil liberties.
Defending the program, Bush said in his address that it is used only to intercept the international communications of people inside the United States who have been determined to have "a clear link" to al- Qaida or related terrorist organizations.
12-17-2005, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by lojasmo
Yes, it's only you...and idiots like you.
It was shortly after this exact same thing came about during the Nixon administration when the Nixon ship started going down in flames.
It was shortly after this exact same thing came about during the Nixon administration when the Nixon ship started going down in flames.
12-17-2005, 10:20 AM
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I just don't see any crime in keeping tabs on people that have a clear link to al Qadea. If I were Bush i'd be very angry as well. You're legitimately doing everything in your power to keep America safe in this respect only to have the NY Times uncover it in attempt to make it a scandal?! Surprise Surprise! The President has access to stuff congress doesn't need to see and always has... they'll get over it after they realize their position isn't at the top.
I know this doesn't happen often but stuff like this legitimately keeps us safe because do not need to know. I agree for the most part that the people have a right to know what their leader is doing but this certainly isn't one of them. The only terrorist threat I see is the NY Times.
I know this doesn't happen often but stuff like this legitimately keeps us safe because do not need to know. I agree for the most part that the people have a right to know what their leader is doing but this certainly isn't one of them. The only terrorist threat I see is the NY Times.
12-17-2005, 01:35 PM
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Does the media really think this is actually news to people? The NSA has been around since like 1949. Unless you're from Mars, you know what the NSA does....lol.
12-17-2005, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Salty
He kept tabs on a domestic terrorist threat? Interesting.
No...but he implied that he was.
<snip>The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court was supposed to put an end to the kinds of wiretaps that were placed on the phones of enemies of President Nixon, such as Morton Halperin. The White House ordered the tap on Halperin to find out whether the former White House staffer had leaked information about the secret bombing of Cambodia. For nearly two years, Halperin says, the tap picked up everything that he and his family said.
"For example, I was working on the Muskie campaign for president," Halperin recalls. "They picked up calls about that. They picked up many personal calls. My little kids were on the phone and they got those. My wife's phone calls -- everything was intercepted."
There was no need for the White House to obtain court approval. All President Nixon had to do was say that the tap was needed for "national security." The need for reform was clear.
Sound familliar? It should. Bush's actions leave tons of room for just this same kind of abuse.
Anybody who doesn't understand the orwellian/machiavellian tactics of this administration is a goddamned fool.
12-17-2005, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by lojasmo
Anybody who doesn't understand the orwellian/machiavellian tactics of this administration is a goddamned fool.
How would you suggest we protect it? You want to just wave the white flag or ??
Last edited by HellaDumb; 12-17-2005 at 06:53 PM.
12-17-2005, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by HellaDumb
So you are saying you're against lawful orwellian/machiavellian tactics that protect our nation?
How would you suggest we protect it? You want to just wave the white flag or ??
How would you suggest we protect it? You want to just wave the white flag or ??
It is, however, demonstrably in violation of the fourth amendment to the constitution of the United States. Lawful? I think not.
12-17-2005, 07:19 PM
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Simply ask yourself if you are willing to give up a small portion of your freedom;to ensure American citizens can safely live and enjoy what they haven't given up. I am. I believe that I am an upstanding citizen who harbors nothing to be ashamed of. I know that there are some that may not quite fit my idea of a citizen. I this is the means to find the needle in a haystack.... So be it.
12-17-2005, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ipozestu
Simply ask yourself if you are willing to give up a small portion of your freedom;to ensure American citizens can safely live and enjoy what they haven't given up. I am. I believe that I am an upstanding citizen who harbors nothing to be ashamed of. I know that there are some that may not quite fit my idea of a citizen. I this is the means to find the needle in a haystack.... So be it.
"Those who would sacrifice essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin
12-17-2005, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Salty
I fully support it. People think that this is a new tactic for the most powerful man in the world. The only reason this has surfaced is because of the usual Bush witch hunt in the last few years.
Absolutely. Keeping tabs on those that may have connections to al Qaida is VITAL. The PA may not have prevented 9/11 had it existed but this may have and should be implemented till the end of time.
Absolutely. Keeping tabs on those that may have connections to al Qaida is VITAL. The PA may not have prevented 9/11 had it existed but this may have and should be implemented till the end of time.
its all fine and dandy until you have the feds tapping your **** i suppose....