The editorial "I" meaning "your" party. hehe

 

exactly...
my point still stands


I know you have an aversion to publicly acknowleging anything I say, but, did any of that register with you? I hope your ' hehe' was your way of showing you understood...

 

i dont do it enough because i have the other mods come in and help me out


https://www.i-club.com/forums/showth...=105818&page=8

thats the last edit i did he did the img thing i put it to url

 

and my PM box is full all the time of technical questions hehe

everyone else gets 50 messages right?

i was up to 75 for a while i remember

 

I'd say that I lean to the left, but to in my mind though, I'm anti-liberal.

Well, I'm anti-conservative, too.

Actually, I just detest listening to the liberals and conservatives (and anyone else for that matter) who just 'have to be heard'.

Anyhow as to clarifying what left-leaning means to me, I just feel like the 'socialist' community that I have been a part of for so long is just great. I know that I'm tremendously stretching the meaning of socialist in likening the Army to countries that have modeled themselves after the texts by Mao, Engler, and Marx; and that we coincidentally been enemies with in the recent past, but I do. And I think it would work for our nation if there were Squad Leaders in place for every 8 Americans.

Anyhow, with reference to being a mod, someone should fire me. I am not doing my job often enough.

 

Maybe you say you're (gpatmac) not doing your job enough; from my perspetive you're just more busy with real life than you are with an online forum about politics . You bring good perspective and you seem to actually have read the posts that the people that you don't agree with make. I don't agree with your political views on the whole, but there are few people here who actually stand behind what they express and who actually understand why they post and I appreciate that.

I, like you seem to be saying, am also feeling alienated from the "mainsteam left" because of the lack of logic used in their decision making on 'important' political decisions; however I do believe that the more liberal (aka 'democratic', aka 'left wing') party is more in line with human survival and the common (international) view of the role of humans on this planet than the current republican party.

Basically, if I had to summerize why I think democrats are going in a better direction than republicans in this country I would say this: democrats realize on the political level, as we all do in our everyday lives, that each of us isn't s***. And, along with an understanding that an idividual isn't s*** comes the recognition that what matters is, neccesarilly, a world wide democracy...up to this point in time, the American democracy has given everyone in the whole world the opportunity to speak up, but only American citizens the right to decide what is right on a global level (because we are the #1 global power).
Along with the advantages of being the #1 world power also comes the responisiblity of knowing that the founding fathers of our country would have had no idea of how to deal with our current situation because they never had true global power.
Our responsibility is to be infinitly better than the last #1 world power (UK), and if we fail to do that, then our responsiblity is to make our government (through our system of electing leaders and our system of economy) so much better than what is currently availible as alternatives to our system that the majority of people on earth want to have their government to be more like ours.

At this particular point in time, we are failing at that endevour. Maybe the reason we are failing is religion (which I personally have denounced on all levels). Maybe it's monitary. Maybe it's idealistic. And maybe it's military. But no matter what the reason is, we are far 'right' of the average person on the planet earth. It should be noted that this has not always been the case. When our ancestors created this country, we were VERY VERY liberal compared to the average government on earth. But, since then, we have transitioned to being the most conservative gov't in the '1st world'.

Why has this happened? In my opinion it's because of our inherant greed for power and success. A true 'world leader' would put aside personal (personal on a national level) aspirations for greed and self preservation for the betterment of global society and global human success...maybe that's the altruistic me coming out...but I really do believe that in the coming decades the opinion of the majority of Americans will be insignificant when compared to the opinion of the majority of Earthbound Humans. And because of that any other opinion will be seen as egotistical and selfish. That's my specualtion though...we're all entitled to our opinions...

 

Like it or not, I think this more or less summarizes the view of most democrats in this country. Of course there will be those who think they need to go to extremes to be heard (eco-terrorists, etc.), but when half the population isn't listening, it is kind of frustrating trying to express a view that gets set aside and piled with other 'liberal propaganda.' So I see why some liberals go down the crazy trail... This is bad for the dem's because it gives them an incredible, volatile image, and it is bad for rep's because they are blocking out and refusing to hear a point of view that should be taken into account, if not put in the forefront of our country's efforts.

So I guess as a lib-leaning indie, I need to either be calm and calculated in the projection of my opinion, completely quiet, or just wait until '08 when dem's will be back in power. The way things are going now with the environment, gas prices, and our occupation with no end in sight, I think people are starting to realize we may have the wrong kind of ideology leading our country, and perhaps we need to re-prioritize a few things. .... But of course, this is all speculation.

 

Hey, Im honored!

 

Me too. As for the Christian thing, I think I can safely say that of all the christians that I know they're a christian and their political party, the politcal party is pretty balanced btwn Rs and Ds.

Are u an athiest or none believer? Do you denounce any and all religion? I'm just curious. I'm not trying to start something, just learn your views. I personally call myself an Athiest just because I do not believe in a God. But at the sametime I do not put others down, or thell them that what they believe is wrong.

 

See, what's ironic to me is that if you sat down individually with a non-homogenous group of folks with, what they believed, were ideologies that would span the spectrum; you'd probably find that at the most basic level we all (at least those who are conscientious about their politics) are like minded. [I know it was long, but was that a run-on?]

Anyhow, if I were somehow able to influence the entire world, or at least the USA, my sole platform would only be two things:

1) That everyone should lead their lives thinking of others before they think of themselves. I am naive, but I do believe in the power of influence. I believe that anyone who has any public voice, no matter how small, should all be influencing the 'golden rule' upon everyone in the world. Would it be heeded by everyone? No, but think of the ramifications if just 20% of the 'selfish' became more 'selfless'.

2) For anyone striving to become a civic leader, in order for them to serve in a public capacity, they would have to agree to be killed at the end of their relatively short term. If, due to that facet, no one will run voluntarily, then there would be elections that would mandate who the candidates would be. Regardless of how they attained office, though, in the end they would still be executed (in a most humane way, of course.)

I'm only half joking about #2.

 

See, here is my whole conundrum with politics. I'll use the abortion issue for an example (and then just digress from there like I'm so good at doing.)

Pat's hypothetical ponderings: "You know, I don't want any babies or fetus' to die, but I appreciate the fact that there is a choice. That's what makes America GREAT! On the other hand, I don't want any unwanted children to have to live in squallor or grow up in an orphanage. Yet, I don't want overpopulation, but ultimately I see it as a foregone conclusion with obvious, far reaching consequences that we are already feeling across the globe. Well, I say we but of course I don't see overpopulation in my backyard or on a daily basis unless it happens to be on the 6 o'clock news, and even though I know that it won't really be a true 'global' problem for probably decades or even centuries, why should I care when I'm not faced with it everyday?

My solution: I DON'T CARE! ....no, but wait. I'm a conscientious, caring human being. Of course I care. But what can I do about it? Hmmmm, nothing that pops into mind immediately.

I guess all that's left for me to do is to do the best with my daily life and that which I can influence.

What if I ever get fired up enough and want to influence on a greater scale than just my daily situation? Should I entertain the thought to run for public office in the future? That would be a sure-fire way to influence more than I would as a private citizen. Well, if I were to do that, I imagine that I'd have to overcome the self-loathing that I'm sure would follow with being a politician. That and how much of my 'work' would actually be just many dubious victories where I really didn't accomplish anything.

Heck, even though I hold my own ethics, intelligence, and altruism in fairly high regard, it would be nearly impossible to be a politician without selling out. Lord knows that the public doesn't care enough to check my voting record. I guess, I could give in a little in order to get my people-oriented, do-gooder, world-changing legislation passed. Nah, I have the feeling that I'm absolutely ill-equiped and unprepared for dealing with those that have the real power. That and there are just too many 'good causes'. How could I focus on just one? There's so much greed, tryanny, and unnecessary hardship in the world, no one man could possibly have any real effect on the world.

Well, shoot! Now, I'm getting mired down in the philosophy of it. If I do that, I'm sure to get completely discouraged in the futility of it all. I imagine that if one were really dedicated to looking at the fruitlessness of life, you could probably negate even the President's true influence down to nothing."

Therefore, the one and only conclusion that I can come up with is that I can only affect my immediate surroundings. I can really try to go out of my way to treat everyone I come in contact with the exact same way that I'd like to be treated. I'm not saying that going beyond my own surroundings should be discouraged. I've always admired those who were truly selfless and were somehow able to influence thousands, but I'm not ready to give up my life and live like one destined for sainthood. The golden rule should at least be the minimum standard, though.

Simple enough.

 

I agree...I think pretty much everyone thinks this:

 

I am no Ned Flanders, and can safely say that there is a multitude of strong, left-leaning Christians. I am one of them. I am eco-friendly, dont agree that pre-emptive strikes are morally acceptable, love wine and beer, and view Christ as a radical advocate of social justice, not social snobbery (ala the new wave of "evangelicals" in their big SUVs and nice houses).

 

I am an athiest and I denounce all organized religions becuase, if you make the assumption that a god does exist, then I believe he would be appaled by the organized religions and the atrocities they have commited against human kind. If you look through some older threads in here you'll find all you need to know about my thoughts on religion, lets not start another discussion about it that will most likely just **** people off.

 

You're not an athiest, no matter what you tell yourself.

Where does everyone get this idea that God is some sort of benevolent supreme being ala the BS that Sunday School at Sunny Morning Christian Church would have you believe?

I'm not an athiest, but I tend to believe that GOD likes to see pain, rain, and suffering in everyone's life.