New Brake Kit
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New Brake Kit
I have been researching brakes recently. After alot of reading I have found what I believe to be THE BEST brake company out there. I have setup a deal with The Brake Man and I have setup a great system for us. The system includes the following for the WRX:
Front Only Kit:
2 Tornado F4 Forged Billet Calipers w/4 1.50" pistons per caliper
Your choice of Procast 2 piece Cast Iron Rotors (Round, w/ Gas Slots) or the Revolution Steel Rotor (Convoluted Inner and Outer Diameter) The Front procast rotors are better for guys who run at road courses and autocrosses, and the Front Revolution rotors are better for drag racers.
High-performance pads
Steel Braided Lines
The Four Wheel Kit includes Everything above plus:
2 Tornado F1 Forged Billet Calipers w/2 1.75" pistons per caliper
The Revolution Steel Rotor w/Convoluted Inner and Outer Diameter (recommended) or the Procast Cast Iron Rotors
High-performance pads
Steel Braided Lines
If you are wondering why this kit is better then brembo, stoptech, wilwood or any other, I can give a number of reasons.
The WRX front only kit is: $2392.50(MSRP $2983.00)
The WRX 4 Wheel kit is: $3741.00(MSRP $4665.00)
Email me for the price of the Xtreme6 Brake Fluid
Note to RS owners: The kits will basically be the same parts except the RS uses the F3 caliper. The price will be about $200 less then the WRX kit.
If you are a Racer, or go to car shows, send me an email and we can see what we can work out.
Note to Dealers: I also have special dealer pricing. Send me an email and we can work out pricing.
Front Only Kit:
2 Tornado F4 Forged Billet Calipers w/4 1.50" pistons per caliper
Your choice of Procast 2 piece Cast Iron Rotors (Round, w/ Gas Slots) or the Revolution Steel Rotor (Convoluted Inner and Outer Diameter) The Front procast rotors are better for guys who run at road courses and autocrosses, and the Front Revolution rotors are better for drag racers.
High-performance pads
Steel Braided Lines
The Four Wheel Kit includes Everything above plus:
2 Tornado F1 Forged Billet Calipers w/2 1.75" pistons per caliper
The Revolution Steel Rotor w/Convoluted Inner and Outer Diameter (recommended) or the Procast Cast Iron Rotors
High-performance pads
Steel Braided Lines
If you are wondering why this kit is better then brembo, stoptech, wilwood or any other, I can give a number of reasons.
The WRX front only kit is: $2392.50(MSRP $2983.00)
The WRX 4 Wheel kit is: $3741.00(MSRP $4665.00)
Email me for the price of the Xtreme6 Brake Fluid
Note to RS owners: The kits will basically be the same parts except the RS uses the F3 caliper. The price will be about $200 less then the WRX kit.
If you are a Racer, or go to car shows, send me an email and we can see what we can work out.
Note to Dealers: I also have special dealer pricing. Send me an email and we can work out pricing.
Last edited by AaronC; Dec 2, 2002 at 08:24 AM.
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From: Mann Engineering, Santa Clara, CA
Car Info: 13BRZ, 11FXT, 08T25, 07STI, 02WRX
Well, it seems that price is not one of the reasons. 2400 for just the fronts. 
I mean the StopTech kit is like 1k less and it is a really high quality kit. And the Wilwoods I can get for like 850.
I mean the StopTech kit is like 1k less and it is a really high quality kit. And the Wilwoods I can get for like 850.
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Originally posted by ImprezaRSDriver
Well, it seems that price is not one of the reasons. 2400 for just the fronts. I mean the StopTech kit is like 1k less and it is a really high quality kit. And the Wilwoods I can get for like 850.
Well, it seems that price is not one of the reasons. 2400 for just the fronts.
I mean the StopTech kit is like 1k less and it is a really high quality kit. And the Wilwoods I can get for like 850.
A few things you should as yourself when choosing a kit is, will the kit...
Fit the stock wheels
Considerably reduce unsprung weight
Make it easier to change pads
Provide a better selection of pads
Improve cooling
Increase rotor diameter (but not to the point that brake bias is upset)
Reduce rotor weight
Increase clamping force
Reduce flexing of caliper assembly
Make servicing of brakes easier
Reduce drag on rotor when not braking
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Originally posted by ImprezaRSDriver
I think that StopTech meets all of the above except for wheels. And so does the Wilwood Kit.
I think that StopTech meets all of the above except for wheels. And so does the Wilwood Kit.
Fit the stock wheels
Considerably reduce unsprung weight - The stoptechs calipers are heavy
Reduce rotor weight - the rear assembly on my kit is much lighter then the stock rotor
Reduce flexing of caliper assembly - The Brake Man calipers are made form Forged Billet Aluminum with a steel center section that makes it one of the most rigid calipers that money can buy.
Reduce drag on rotor when not braking - Actually The Brake Man is the ONLY manufacturer that sells calipers that fully release the brake rotors.
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Car Info: 13BRZ, 11FXT, 08T25, 07STI, 02WRX
Originally posted by AaronC
The stoptech is inferior to the kit above in the following ways:
Fit the stock wheels
Considerably reduce unsprung weight - The stoptechs calipers are heavy
Reduce rotor weight - the rear assembly on my kit is much lighter then the stock rotor
Reduce flexing of caliper assembly - The Brake Man calipers are made form Forged Billet Aluminum with a steel center section that makes it one of the most rigid calipers that money can buy.
Reduce drag on rotor when not braking - Actually The Brake Man is the ONLY manufacturer that sells calipers that fully release the brake rotors.
The stoptech is inferior to the kit above in the following ways:
Fit the stock wheels
Considerably reduce unsprung weight - The stoptechs calipers are heavy
Reduce rotor weight - the rear assembly on my kit is much lighter then the stock rotor
Reduce flexing of caliper assembly - The Brake Man calipers are made form Forged Billet Aluminum with a steel center section that makes it one of the most rigid calipers that money can buy.
Reduce drag on rotor when not braking - Actually The Brake Man is the ONLY manufacturer that sells calipers that fully release the brake rotors.
1. Have you felt the weight of the StopTech calipers? They are not heavy at all. I will say for sure that they are lighter than the stock calipers that come with the car.
2. Rotor Weight - The StopTech rotors are machined aluminum and not cast iron. Those are really light also.
3. Caliper Flex - Uh, that is why StopTech designed the bridge system for their caliper to reduce flex. And it is a patented design that really makes sense.
4. I am sure that StopTech has considered it and you have to remember that it is a possible safety issue. I mean think about it.
I have this kit on my car and it is one of the original pre-production trial kits. I still can say that this kit is not inferior in anyway. I am not promoting anything but just stating the facts. I am sure that the Brake Man kit is nice and everything, but I still do not see a justification in spending over another 1K on brakes when the StopTechs are more than adequate.
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Rotor weight is a good thing in some respects as it will help to deal with the thermal considerations that would be the primary reason for going with a brake upgrade.
Can you comment on the fade resistance of your cauliflowered rotors? My experiences with rotors like this is that they are primarily for show and weight reduction and and have significantly poorer thermal capabilities when compared to plain or slotted rotors.
Can you comment on expected lifespan on the rotors under stress (track days)?
What is the expected replacement cost of the rotors?
What is the selection of pads available? Do you have an FMSI number for the backing plate? What are the other common applications?
Can you comment on the total brake torque with respect to the stock brakes? You mention that your calipers increase clamping force, at the same time you are increasing rotor diameter, which is also increasing braking torque. The total resulting torque increase would appear to be very large, which is the OPPOSITE direction that all the main big brake kit manufacturers tend to head. The Wilwood 6 pot kit? Less torque than stock. The Stoptech kit? Less torque than stock. The two Brembo kits recently reviewed in C&D? Also less torque than stock. AP Racing? Yep, also less torque than stock. C&D publishes all the numbers necessary to find this info in their article on the Brembo and Stoptech kits. So why is it a good thing that your kit has so much more torque than stock? It isn't.
You claim stiffer calipers than others on the market. Do you have comparative data to share? You tout multipiece billiet calipers as very good for stiffness, yet when I have talked to people who design brake systems from Precision Brakes Company, Wilwood, and Stoptech, they all have said that cast calipers tend to be stiffer, and the fewer pieces the better. They noted billet calipers tend to have an advantage in the line pressures they are able to deal with. One person even said that billet calipers were primarily for looks, and even though he loved the look of the billet calipers he would never use them at the track.
Your claims seem contradictory to several significant and historically very successful players in the brake arena. I would be very interested how this veritable no-name has suddenly dramatically improved on systems created by Brembo, AP, and Stoptech developed through years of research, track work and testing.
Can you comment on the fade resistance of your cauliflowered rotors? My experiences with rotors like this is that they are primarily for show and weight reduction and and have significantly poorer thermal capabilities when compared to plain or slotted rotors.
Can you comment on expected lifespan on the rotors under stress (track days)?
What is the expected replacement cost of the rotors?
What is the selection of pads available? Do you have an FMSI number for the backing plate? What are the other common applications?
Can you comment on the total brake torque with respect to the stock brakes? You mention that your calipers increase clamping force, at the same time you are increasing rotor diameter, which is also increasing braking torque. The total resulting torque increase would appear to be very large, which is the OPPOSITE direction that all the main big brake kit manufacturers tend to head. The Wilwood 6 pot kit? Less torque than stock. The Stoptech kit? Less torque than stock. The two Brembo kits recently reviewed in C&D? Also less torque than stock. AP Racing? Yep, also less torque than stock. C&D publishes all the numbers necessary to find this info in their article on the Brembo and Stoptech kits. So why is it a good thing that your kit has so much more torque than stock? It isn't.
You claim stiffer calipers than others on the market. Do you have comparative data to share? You tout multipiece billiet calipers as very good for stiffness, yet when I have talked to people who design brake systems from Precision Brakes Company, Wilwood, and Stoptech, they all have said that cast calipers tend to be stiffer, and the fewer pieces the better. They noted billet calipers tend to have an advantage in the line pressures they are able to deal with. One person even said that billet calipers were primarily for looks, and even though he loved the look of the billet calipers he would never use them at the track.
Your claims seem contradictory to several significant and historically very successful players in the brake arena. I would be very interested how this veritable no-name has suddenly dramatically improved on systems created by Brembo, AP, and Stoptech developed through years of research, track work and testing.
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Originally posted by Concillian
Can you comment on the fade resistance of your cauliflowered rotors? My experiences with rotors like this is that they are primarily for show and weight reduction and and have significantly poorer thermal capabilities when compared to plain or slotted rotors.
Can you comment on the fade resistance of your cauliflowered rotors? My experiences with rotors like this is that they are primarily for show and weight reduction and and have significantly poorer thermal capabilities when compared to plain or slotted rotors.
Originally posted by Concillian
Can you comment on expected lifespan on the rotors under stress (track days)?
Can you comment on expected lifespan on the rotors under stress (track days)?
Originally posted by Concillian
What is the selection of pads available? Do you have an FMSI number for the backing plate? What are the other common applications?
What is the selection of pads available? Do you have an FMSI number for the backing plate? What are the other common applications?
Originally posted by Concillian
What is the expected replacement cost of the rotors?
What is the expected replacement cost of the rotors?
Last edited by AaronC; Dec 2, 2002 at 08:26 AM.
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Posts: 48
Had to split this up.
Originally posted by Concillian
Can you comment on the total brake torque with respect to the stock brakes? You mention that your calipers increase clamping force, at the same time you are increasing rotor diameter, which is also increasing braking torque. The total resulting torque increase would appear to be very large, which is the OPPOSITE direction that all the main big brake kit manufacturers tend to head. The Wilwood 6 pot kit? Less torque than stock. The Stoptech kit? Less torque than stock. The two Brembo kits recently reviewed in C&D? Also less torque than stock. AP Racing? Yep, also less torque than stock. C&D publishes all the numbers necessary to find this info in their article on the Brembo and Stoptech kits. So why is it a good thing that your kit has so much more torque than stock? It isn't.
Can you comment on the total brake torque with respect to the stock brakes? You mention that your calipers increase clamping force, at the same time you are increasing rotor diameter, which is also increasing braking torque. The total resulting torque increase would appear to be very large, which is the OPPOSITE direction that all the main big brake kit manufacturers tend to head. The Wilwood 6 pot kit? Less torque than stock. The Stoptech kit? Less torque than stock. The two Brembo kits recently reviewed in C&D? Also less torque than stock. AP Racing? Yep, also less torque than stock. C&D publishes all the numbers necessary to find this info in their article on the Brembo and Stoptech kits. So why is it a good thing that your kit has so much more torque than stock? It isn't.
Originally posted by Concillian
You claim stiffer calipers than others on the market. Do you have comparative data to share? You tout multipiece billiet calipers as very good for stiffness, yet when I have talked to people who design brake systems from Precision Brakes Company, Wilwood, and Stoptech, they all have said that cast calipers tend to be stiffer, and the fewer pieces the better. They noted billet calipers tend to have an advantage in the line pressures they are able to deal with. One person even said that billet calipers were primarily for looks, and even though he loved the look of the billet calipers he would never use them at the track.
You claim stiffer calipers than others on the market. Do you have comparative data to share? You tout multipiece billiet calipers as very good for stiffness, yet when I have talked to people who design brake systems from Precision Brakes Company, Wilwood, and Stoptech, they all have said that cast calipers tend to be stiffer, and the fewer pieces the better. They noted billet calipers tend to have an advantage in the line pressures they are able to deal with. One person even said that billet calipers were primarily for looks, and even though he loved the look of the billet calipers he would never use them at the track.
Originally posted by Concillian
Your claims seem contradictory to several significant and historically very successful players in the brake arena. I would be very interested how this veritable no-name has suddenly dramatically improved on systems created by Brembo, AP, and Stoptech developed through years of research, track work and testing.
Your claims seem contradictory to several significant and historically very successful players in the brake arena. I would be very interested how this veritable no-name has suddenly dramatically improved on systems created by Brembo, AP, and Stoptech developed through years of research, track work and testing.
Last edited by AaronC; Dec 2, 2002 at 08:27 AM.
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Here is a review of the convoluted design rotors on a motorcycle.
http://www.motorcycledaily.com/19sep...uctreview.html
http://www.motorcycledaily.com/19sep...uctreview.html
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Okay so basically, AP, Alcon, Brembo, Wilwood, and StopTech are all companies that copied him basically. You also never mentioned about brake bias on his calipers. Do they send more braking power to the rear or keep all of the power to the front?
Even though you mention he gives a more linear feel through the pedal. StopTech's setup gives me a linear feel and many others agree that it is a linear feel once it is on the car. Because StopTech calipers can be custom designed with various piston sizes. I know the person that helped design the StopTech kits for StopTech and I know that he has quite a few years under his belt with knowledge of Subarus.
Just remember, it is easy to say here is a brake kit that will bolt right onto the Imprezas and look nice, but it should be more than just that. It seems like this kit is more for show than performance.
Even though you mention he gives a more linear feel through the pedal. StopTech's setup gives me a linear feel and many others agree that it is a linear feel once it is on the car. Because StopTech calipers can be custom designed with various piston sizes. I know the person that helped design the StopTech kits for StopTech and I know that he has quite a few years under his belt with knowledge of Subarus.
Just remember, it is easy to say here is a brake kit that will bolt right onto the Imprezas and look nice, but it should be more than just that. It seems like this kit is more for show than performance.
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Being a vendor for these brake kits does make your opinion not very valid and a bit biased.
And claiming that one design is better over the other is not going to get you too far. People want real data.
I commend your enthusiasm towards this product, but you're being a salesperson or worse you've been suckerd into a deal that if you can drum up a few sales you'll get something in return from these guys.
[/jumps in flame suit]
And claiming that one design is better over the other is not going to get you too far. People want real data.
I commend your enthusiasm towards this product, but you're being a salesperson or worse you've been suckerd into a deal that if you can drum up a few sales you'll get something in return from these guys.
[/jumps in flame suit]
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Originally posted by ImprezaRSDriver
You also never mentioned about brake bias on his calipers. Do they send more braking power to the rear or keep all of the power to the front?
You also never mentioned about brake bias on his calipers. Do they send more braking power to the rear or keep all of the power to the front?
One of the first questions I asked them was how their brakes were balanced. Because the front brakes are very powerful you can put their rear calipers on and keep the stock brake bias(many other kits, ie stoptech do not make rear kits because their front calipers have less torque then stock).
Originally posted by ImprezaRSDriver
Oh yeah, how do the kits work with the ABS system?
Oh yeah, how do the kits work with the ABS system?
Last edited by AaronC; Dec 2, 2002 at 08:28 AM.