Brake Failure -- Dealer to Blame?
11-25-2008, 08:15 AM
#61
I don't need more cowbell dammit!
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For me.. On my 900 Supersport I was going down the fast lane at 80 mph. Then 70 mph then 50 mph. At 1st I thought it was a head wind. Then I hit 50 down to 40 and was like wtf is my motor seizing.
So I was able to get over to the right hand shoulder. I got off the bike and looked at the motor.. going to check the oil level. I saw smoke.. Then flame. Then me tossing dirt on the caliper. spit hell I was ready to **** on the damn thing..
After it cooled off for a bit but still way to hot to touch. That brake would not move for anything. It would drag the rear tire. I cut the brake line thinking I could move the pistons back. Didnt have any tools. I took my key and cut the brake line. Got sprayed in the face with brake fluid vapor. That really really sucked....
I then was able to get the pads out. one clip and one pin holding them. After that is was a very slow ride off the freeway into san ramon.
Now this had been like this for about a week. The student failed to set the master rear brake free play on the master cylinder,
So about 50 miles each way to work. 100 miles a day for atleast 6 days. 600 miles before failure. My bike never locked up till it cooled off. I know the STi has more torque and more power then my ducati. So he could have been driving that for a month or two. Your not going to get a failure right away. You could make a bunch of short trips and never get enough heat. Remeber the job of the brake system is to bleed off heat.
I'm not defending anyone I'm talking about what I know. I do think its allot easier to believe that a dealer flat rate tech screwed up. Not the 1st time. Then james bond picking his car out of millions for say covert ops.
Someone call mythbusters.
So I was able to get over to the right hand shoulder. I got off the bike and looked at the motor.. going to check the oil level. I saw smoke.. Then flame. Then me tossing dirt on the caliper. spit hell I was ready to **** on the damn thing..
After it cooled off for a bit but still way to hot to touch. That brake would not move for anything. It would drag the rear tire. I cut the brake line thinking I could move the pistons back. Didnt have any tools. I took my key and cut the brake line. Got sprayed in the face with brake fluid vapor. That really really sucked....
I then was able to get the pads out. one clip and one pin holding them. After that is was a very slow ride off the freeway into san ramon.
Now this had been like this for about a week. The student failed to set the master rear brake free play on the master cylinder,
So about 50 miles each way to work. 100 miles a day for atleast 6 days. 600 miles before failure. My bike never locked up till it cooled off. I know the STi has more torque and more power then my ducati. So he could have been driving that for a month or two. Your not going to get a failure right away. You could make a bunch of short trips and never get enough heat. Remeber the job of the brake system is to bleed off heat.
I'm not defending anyone I'm talking about what I know. I do think its allot easier to believe that a dealer flat rate tech screwed up. Not the 1st time. Then james bond picking his car out of millions for say covert ops.
Someone call mythbusters.
11-25-2008, 09:15 AM
#64
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You would smell your brake burning, the same way you smell your clutch burning. Not to mention you should notice a significant lack of braking power after such an event so I find it hard to believe he drove along for a while without noticing either 1) the smell of the burning brake or 2) the severe drop off in braking power.
If you clamped one rear brake line on an STi, there would definitely NOT be a "significant lack of braking power" noticed at normal freeway speeds by most drivers. In fact, since only 3 calipers are now receiving the pressure from the master cylinder designed to support 4 calipers, the line pressure to the remaining 3 calipers could be increased as a result of pressure not reaching the LR caliper.
You or I do not know if there really was a severe drop off in braking power however when I have had a similar experience in the form of a single caliper siezing up on a race track, it took me a little while to figure out what was wrong even though it was apparent there was something up. I have seen people driving down the freeway with flat tires, doors open, and all kind of other things that "you would notice" on your car. It happens.
The only odd part is that the guy hasn't responded, but hey - maybe he is doing other things than being on the internoodle. Who knows.
You seem to be pursuing this as if this person did this to his car on purpose and is blaming the dealership. You sound like you are saying a few things: 1. there is no way this could have happened at this dealership, 2. if this happened on your car you would instantly know that there was a brake line problem in the left rear that had resulted in pressure problems on your line and you would have handled it immediately, and 3. there is much more to the story that only you and the OP know, which will make it all so clear. I am just here to tell you that, just like me, unless you were there when the work was being done and the problem was discovered you don't know what you are talking about. The "absolutes" you mention (the dealership wouldn't have done this, if they did it would have been instantly noticeable, upon the rear brake not releasing any avergage joebob would have instantly known exactly what the problem was and what to do) are simply not true. The amount of flat out appallingly bad work I have seen at shops in the Bay Area makes this a complete possibility, though I have no first hand experience with this particular shop.
11-25-2008, 09:16 AM
#65
You would smell your brake burning, the same way you smell your clutch burning. Not to mention you should notice a significant lack of braking power after such an event so I find it hard to believe he drove along for a while without noticing either 1) the smell of the burning brake or 2) the severe drop off in braking power.
11-25-2008, 09:18 AM
#66
Again, it never says the wheel locked. He says "the brake stayed locked" but I think he meant "clamped" as again, there needs to be TONS of friction to make that much heat. The rotor would not be red hot like that if the brake and wheel had locked. Also, if he had locked a rear wheel like that, as Gagan said, he would have experienced shock oversteer along the lines of if the handbrake had been pulled. IMHO the red rotor is plenty of evidence that the wheel did not lock, but there was a good amount of constant abnormal pressure, after the panic stop, on the line which caused the friction needed to deep fry the rotor.
If he were travelling at speed on the freeway, it would be highly unlikely that he would smell his rear brake burning until he stopped.
I am also not affiliated with anyone here and the only person I have met was you when I let you borrow my intake for a smog.
If he were travelling at speed on the freeway, it would be highly unlikely that he would smell his rear brake burning until he stopped.
I am also not affiliated with anyone here and the only person I have met was you when I let you borrow my intake for a smog.
11-25-2008, 09:33 AM
#67
I don't need more cowbell dammit!
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Why would a Subaru tech at a dealer do that? It makes no sense, do you not understand that? I get why it would be done by someone who has no idea what they are doing.
11-25-2008, 09:37 AM
#68
I don't need more cowbell dammit!
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If you were cruising down the highway you would most likely not smell a smell coming from your left rear wheel area since the source of the smell is outside of the car and behind you with a wind pushing it away at whatever speed the car is traveling. I am surprised this needs to be explained. It would be difficult to burn your clutch at speed on the freeway, but if you were able, you may smell it since it is forward of the cowl and vent system in the vehicle. From what it sounds like, the car was traveling down the freeway, had a hard stop and then after that "it seemed like something was wrong, like a flat tire." In other words he did notice it but did not know exactly what the problem was - this is not surprising since the STi has more than adequate brakes and this was a rear brake that was compromised. If it had been a front brake, or the rear brake had locked - it would have been totally different.
If you clamped one rear brake line on an STi, there would definitely NOT be a "significant lack of braking power" noticed at normal freeway speeds by most drivers. In fact, since only 3 calipers are now receiving the pressure from the master cylinder designed to support 4 calipers, the line pressure to the remaining 3 calipers could be increased as a result of pressure not reaching the LR caliper.
You or I do not know if there really was a severe drop off in braking power however when I have had a similar experience in the form of a single caliper siezing up on a race track, it took me a little while to figure out what was wrong even though it was apparent there was something up. I have seen people driving down the freeway with flat tires, doors open, and all kind of other things that "you would notice" on your car. It happens.
The only odd part is that the guy hasn't responded, but hey - maybe he is doing other things than being on the internoodle. Who knows.
You seem to be pursuing this as if this person did this to his car on purpose and is blaming the dealership. You sound like you are saying a few things: 1. there is no way this could have happened at this dealership, 2. if this happened on your car you would instantly know that there was a brake line problem in the left rear that had resulted in pressure problems on your line and you would have handled it immediately, and 3. there is much more to the story that only you and the OP know, which will make it all so clear. I am just here to tell you that, just like me, unless you were there when the work was being done and the problem was discovered you don't know what you are talking about. The "absolutes" you mention (the dealership wouldn't have done this, if they did it would have been instantly noticeable, upon the rear brake not releasing any avergage joebob would have instantly known exactly what the problem was and what to do) are simply not true. The amount of flat out appallingly bad work I have seen at shops in the Bay Area makes this a complete possibility, though I have no first hand experience with this particular shop.
If you clamped one rear brake line on an STi, there would definitely NOT be a "significant lack of braking power" noticed at normal freeway speeds by most drivers. In fact, since only 3 calipers are now receiving the pressure from the master cylinder designed to support 4 calipers, the line pressure to the remaining 3 calipers could be increased as a result of pressure not reaching the LR caliper.
You or I do not know if there really was a severe drop off in braking power however when I have had a similar experience in the form of a single caliper siezing up on a race track, it took me a little while to figure out what was wrong even though it was apparent there was something up. I have seen people driving down the freeway with flat tires, doors open, and all kind of other things that "you would notice" on your car. It happens.
The only odd part is that the guy hasn't responded, but hey - maybe he is doing other things than being on the internoodle. Who knows.
You seem to be pursuing this as if this person did this to his car on purpose and is blaming the dealership. You sound like you are saying a few things: 1. there is no way this could have happened at this dealership, 2. if this happened on your car you would instantly know that there was a brake line problem in the left rear that had resulted in pressure problems on your line and you would have handled it immediately, and 3. there is much more to the story that only you and the OP know, which will make it all so clear. I am just here to tell you that, just like me, unless you were there when the work was being done and the problem was discovered you don't know what you are talking about. The "absolutes" you mention (the dealership wouldn't have done this, if they did it would have been instantly noticeable, upon the rear brake not releasing any avergage joebob would have instantly known exactly what the problem was and what to do) are simply not true. The amount of flat out appallingly bad work I have seen at shops in the Bay Area makes this a complete possibility, though I have no first hand experience with this particular shop.
11-25-2008, 09:57 AM
#70
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If his tire was dragging like he said, it would smell like burning rubber and you would smell that inside your cabin. Also, you would smell the burning brake, there is no way you wouldnt smell it, no matter what speed you are travelling. It would smell terrible, much, much worse than a slipped clutch. And I was asking how after the brake failure he could keep driving, as he stated, and not notice a severe decrease in braking power, not before the failure. More than just I and the OP know more about this problem, but I will leave that to the person who informed me to disclose if he feels it is necessary. There was a significant amount of time and mileage between having had the work done and the failure and there are parts in that picture that were not there when the car left the shop.
It would be very unlikely that you would smell something like that in that area. The ventilation system is letting air out in the rear of the vehicle - the only place for the smell to come in would have air rushing outward until the car stopped. I have had similar things happen before and the smells did not enter the car till the car stopped. I have no idea about the time and mileage between the work and the incident. Evidently you personally inspected the car when it left the dealership otherwise you wouldn't know what was and was not there when it left the shop. Saying that "A Subaru tech wouldn't do that" is just retarded. Your knowledge-free comments that keep simply restating what you are saying have lost their entertainment value.
I am not saying someone at the dealership screwed up and they should pay. In fact it seems that the OP went and had it fixed somewhere else on his own. I am saying the things you are pointing out that are so condemning of this person - simply do not make sense. Sounds like you are just trying to make this person look bad whether you are or not. Either way - it's all yours.
good arguement
11-25-2008, 10:01 AM
#73
I don't need more cowbell dammit!
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Oh man it's getting deep.. Alright, you are obviously on a mission here and you can have it, but you are still saying weird stuff that just doesn't make sense. He didn't say the tire was dragging - at least I didn't see that. There would be no burning rubber - evidently you do not understand what would need to happen to make a brake rotor and caliper look like the ones in the picture or much else about braking systems for that matter. There would not be a severe decrease in braking power before or after the incident simply with one brake line clamped. The average driver would not notice decreased or little braking power on a single rear brake in normal driving even if it were this way for a long while (as was implied by the OP stating that he noticed his rotor was rusty).
It would be very unlikely that you would smell something like that in that area. The ventilation system is letting air out in the rear of the vehicle - the only place for the smell to come in would have air rushing outward until the car stopped. I have had similar things happen before and the smells did not enter the car till the car stopped. I have no idea about the time and mileage between the work and the incident. Evidently you personally inspected the car when it left the dealership otherwise you wouldn't know what was and was not there when it left the shop. Saying that "A Subaru tech wouldn't do that" is just retarded. Your knowledge-free comments that keep simply restating what you are saying have lost their entertainment value.
I am not saying someone at the dealership screwed up and they should pay. In fact it seems that the OP went and had it fixed somewhere else on his own. I am saying the things you are pointing out that are so condemning of this person - simply do not make sense. Sounds like you are just trying to make this person look bad whether you are or not. Either way - it's all yours.
It would be very unlikely that you would smell something like that in that area. The ventilation system is letting air out in the rear of the vehicle - the only place for the smell to come in would have air rushing outward until the car stopped. I have had similar things happen before and the smells did not enter the car till the car stopped. I have no idea about the time and mileage between the work and the incident. Evidently you personally inspected the car when it left the dealership otherwise you wouldn't know what was and was not there when it left the shop. Saying that "A Subaru tech wouldn't do that" is just retarded. Your knowledge-free comments that keep simply restating what you are saying have lost their entertainment value.
I am not saying someone at the dealership screwed up and they should pay. In fact it seems that the OP went and had it fixed somewhere else on his own. I am saying the things you are pointing out that are so condemning of this person - simply do not make sense. Sounds like you are just trying to make this person look bad whether you are or not. Either way - it's all yours.
11-25-2008, 10:02 AM
#75
If his tire was dragging like he said, it would smell like burning rubber and you would smell that inside your cabin. Also, you would smell the burning brake, there is no way you wouldnt smell it, no matter what speed you are travelling. It would smell terrible, much, much worse than a slipped clutch. And I was asking how after the brake failure he could keep driving, as he stated, and not notice a severe decrease in braking power, not before the failure. More than just I and the OP know more about this problem, but I will leave that to the person who informed me to disclose if he feels it is necessary. There was a significant amount of time and mileage between having had the work done and the failure and there are parts in that picture that were not there when the car left the shop.
where in the OPs posts does it say that
GTFO !!!!! you have no reading comprehension!