sti a muscle car ? what do you think
01-10-2005, 03:29 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: some in the wrc (washington)
Posts: 156
Car Info: 99 2.5rs
sti a muscle car ? what do you think
I jusst read auto week where they pin an 05 mustang gt and an 05 gto against each other. Just buy looking at the numbers the sti is quicker in the quarter, zero-60 and 60-zero. It didn't beat them but much but it still came out on top. I know the mustang is the best bang for the buck but I also don't care because the sti has more room. I think it's a modern day japanese muscle car.
01-10-2005, 05:05 AM
#2
Registered User
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 18,369
Car Info: 1993/2000/2001 GF4 mostly red
Any car that runs 13s stock is a "muscle car", even if it can turn and stop on a dime. 
Search a bit in the Car Lounge forum and you'll find a lengthy discussion of an article in HotRod a while back that compared the STi with the last Mustang Cobra. the STi basically trounced it in every possible way.
Search a bit in the Car Lounge forum and you'll find a lengthy discussion of an article in HotRod a while back that compared the STi with the last Mustang Cobra. the STi basically trounced it in every possible way.
01-10-2005, 06:34 AM
#3
Registered User
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Sacramento CA
Posts: 10,029
Car Info: 02 Impreza WRX sedan
Traditionally, a 'muscle car' is front-engined, rear-wheel drive, usually has two doors and a back seat, and falls within a certain price range. And is usually American iron although some hot cars were produced in Australia, I think. This includes cars like the '60s and '70s Chevy II SS (Nova), Chevelle SS, various V-8 Camaros, their GM counterparts, the Ford Mustang, AMC Javelin AMX, Dodge/Plymouth Challenger, Charger, and Darts with V-8s.
The Corvette, Viper, and Lotus Elise, and Honda S2000 do not fit this category as they are two-seater sports cars.
We could argue the case that the STi, the EVO, and others should be included as both 'musclecars' and 'sports cars', but really they fit into a special niche. The term 'musclecar' is mainly used for marketing purposes, anyway.
You should read that Hot Rod Magazine article if you can find it. I thought they were very even-handed in their testing and review. The point Hot Rod tries to make these days is that imports have a place in their magazine as long as they perform. They are changing with the times and economic reality.
--
0==WW==0
"…axles of evil…" - george w. bush
The Corvette, Viper, and Lotus Elise, and Honda S2000 do not fit this category as they are two-seater sports cars.
We could argue the case that the STi, the EVO, and others should be included as both 'musclecars' and 'sports cars', but really they fit into a special niche. The term 'musclecar' is mainly used for marketing purposes, anyway.
You should read that Hot Rod Magazine article if you can find it. I thought they were very even-handed in their testing and review. The point Hot Rod tries to make these days is that imports have a place in their magazine as long as they perform. They are changing with the times and economic reality.
--
0==WW==0
"…axles of evil…" - george w. bush
01-10-2005, 08:09 AM
#4
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Coloradoan banished to ND
Posts: 81
Car Info: 05 2.5RS Wagon Royal Blue Pearl
Look at the muscle car formula: Small cheap economy car+big F'in engine = muscle car. But I'd say that the Sti and Evo are overqualified for the muscle car title. Thought they fit the formula, they have a lot more to offer, just my .02
01-10-2005, 09:05 AM
#5
VIP Member
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Lastweek Lane - Watertown, NY
Posts: 10,133
Car Info: 02WRXpseudoSTiWannabeWagon
Not that this is the gospel, but it is a reference:
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclec...finition.shtml
Strict Definition of a Muscle Car:
A muscle car, by the strictest definition, is an intermediate sized, performance oriented model, powered by a large V8 engine, at an affordable price. Most of these models were based on "regular" production vehicles. These vehicles are generally not considered muscle cars, even when equipped with large V8s. If there was a high performance version available, it gets the credit, and not the vehicle that it was based on.
Examples: Buick GS, Chevrolete Chevelle SS, Dodge Charger R/T, Ford Torino/Cobra, Plymouth GTX, Plymouth Road Runner, Oldsmobile 442, Pontiac GTO
Fullsize Muscle Car:
The strict definition only includes intermediate size vehicles. In reality, performance oriented intermediate size vehicles didn't appear until 1964. Before then, manufacturers took existing fullsize vehicles and added extra performance to them. Because of this, the early fullsize performance vehicles are generally considered muscle cars.
Examples: Chevrolet Impala (SS only), Ford Galaxie (with 390 + cid engines only), Dodge Coronet (R/Ts only), etc.
Pony Cars and Compact Cars:
In addition to fullsize and intermediate muscle cars, a number of smaller vehicles started appearing on the automotive performance scene. These new "pony cars" and compact cars are generally considered muscle cars only if they have the top of the line performance engines and options.
Examples: Chevrolet Camaro (SS and Z28 models only), Ford Mustang (GTs and Boss only), Plymouth 'Cudas (no Barracudas), AMC Javelin, etc.
Personal Luxury Cars and Luxury Cars:
Although there were several personal luxury vehicles with performance engines and options, their heavy weight and high sticker prices went against the low cost performance definition of muscle cars. Therefore, they are not considered muscle cars.
Examples: Buick Riviera, Chrysler 300 Letter Cars, Pontiac Grand Prix, etc.
Two Seat Sports Cars:
Two seat sports cars such as the Chevrolet Corvette and the Ford Thunderbird are not considered muscle cars due to their high price and specialty nature. The only exception is the AMC AMX as it was relatively cheap, and was based on the AMC Javalin pony car.
Examples: AMC AMX, etc.
A muscle car, by the strictest definition, is an intermediate sized, performance oriented model, powered by a large V8 engine, at an affordable price. Most of these models were based on "regular" production vehicles. These vehicles are generally not considered muscle cars, even when equipped with large V8s. If there was a high performance version available, it gets the credit, and not the vehicle that it was based on.
Examples: Buick GS, Chevrolete Chevelle SS, Dodge Charger R/T, Ford Torino/Cobra, Plymouth GTX, Plymouth Road Runner, Oldsmobile 442, Pontiac GTO
Fullsize Muscle Car:
The strict definition only includes intermediate size vehicles. In reality, performance oriented intermediate size vehicles didn't appear until 1964. Before then, manufacturers took existing fullsize vehicles and added extra performance to them. Because of this, the early fullsize performance vehicles are generally considered muscle cars.
Examples: Chevrolet Impala (SS only), Ford Galaxie (with 390 + cid engines only), Dodge Coronet (R/Ts only), etc.
Pony Cars and Compact Cars:
In addition to fullsize and intermediate muscle cars, a number of smaller vehicles started appearing on the automotive performance scene. These new "pony cars" and compact cars are generally considered muscle cars only if they have the top of the line performance engines and options.
Examples: Chevrolet Camaro (SS and Z28 models only), Ford Mustang (GTs and Boss only), Plymouth 'Cudas (no Barracudas), AMC Javelin, etc.
Personal Luxury Cars and Luxury Cars:
Although there were several personal luxury vehicles with performance engines and options, their heavy weight and high sticker prices went against the low cost performance definition of muscle cars. Therefore, they are not considered muscle cars.
Examples: Buick Riviera, Chrysler 300 Letter Cars, Pontiac Grand Prix, etc.
Two Seat Sports Cars:
Two seat sports cars such as the Chevrolet Corvette and the Ford Thunderbird are not considered muscle cars due to their high price and specialty nature. The only exception is the AMC AMX as it was relatively cheap, and was based on the AMC Javalin pony car.
Examples: AMC AMX, etc.
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclec...finition.shtml
01-10-2005, 09:08 AM
#6
Registered User
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 18,369
Car Info: 1993/2000/2001 GF4 mostly red
Quick, let's go buy a muscle car today, new on a lot!
What are the choices?
Mustang GT/Cobra
Neon SRT4 (yeah, that's right)
STi
Evo VIII
GTO
That's pretty much it.
What are the choices?
Mustang GT/Cobra
Neon SRT4 (yeah, that's right)
STi
Evo VIII
GTO
That's pretty much it.
01-10-2005, 10:23 AM
#8
Registered User
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 18,369
Car Info: 1993/2000/2001 GF4 mostly red
Too slow, with the exception of the CTS-V, which is too costly.
Muscle car = cheap and fast. $34k is pushing "cheap", but considering the ballpark those cars play in performance-wise, gotta let it slide.
Muscle car = cheap and fast. $34k is pushing "cheap", but considering the ballpark those cars play in performance-wise, gotta let it slide.
01-13-2005, 12:54 PM
#12
BanHammer™
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Wagonmafia Propaganda Lieutenant
Posts: 47,585
Car Info: 2001 Forester RS2 SPEC-F
I would call the SRT-4 a muscle car
To me, when you say muscle car, I think of an economy car (yes, those were suppose to be the cheap cars in the 60's ) that the factory put way too big of a motor in to make it go fast in a straight line.
The SRT-4 is Dodges new muscle car for the next generation, and it does a good job at it. Its very fast in a straight line, although the handling can be made better, it still can turn, unlike some of the stuff that came out in the 60's
The STi / EVO are in a class all by themselves now a days, they are fast in a straight line, but they can turn even better
To me, when you say muscle car, I think of an economy car (yes, those were suppose to be the cheap cars in the 60's ) that the factory put way too big of a motor in to make it go fast in a straight line.
The SRT-4 is Dodges new muscle car for the next generation, and it does a good job at it. Its very fast in a straight line, although the handling can be made better, it still can turn, unlike some of the stuff that came out in the 60's
The STi / EVO are in a class all by themselves now a days, they are fast in a straight line, but they can turn even better
01-13-2005, 06:09 PM
#13
VIP Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Fremont
Posts: 975
Originally Posted by BAN SUVS
Uh, except for the STi, whch beat it head to head in the aforementioned HotRod article...
01-13-2005, 06:15 PM
#14
Registered User
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 18,369
Car Info: 1993/2000/2001 GF4 mostly red
Yeah... and the 4 cylinder import beat the V8 muscle car, in a V8 muscle car magazine. and that "SVT drag race time" debate raged on in the thread about that article, let's not rehash it here. It was all hearsay anyway. What's fact is that HotRod "picked" the SVT Cobra as the winner, but in reality the STi spanked it.
01-15-2005, 09:12 AM
#15
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lexington Ky
Posts: 13
Car Info: '94 Mustang GT Convertable, '93 Civic Hatchback
Either the STI is a modern muscle car, the definition needs changed or cars like the STI need a new name.
By the way, the Hot Rod staff was evenly decided on which car to pick between the STI and the Cobra. I'm a mustang guy, but my money will be buying an STI......
By the way, the Hot Rod staff was evenly decided on which car to pick between the STI and the Cobra. I'm a mustang guy, but my money will be buying an STI......