20 Questions: Is a new STi worth trading in a new WRX?
02-08-2014, 01:23 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Concord
Posts: 5
Car Info: '13 WRX
20 Questions: Is a new STi worth trading in a new WRX?
Hi all, so I'm new to the site and Subie scene, but not cars/mods/builds/tuning, so my questions are an odd mix of well-informed-yet-clueless. Some of these questions are probably hard to answer the way I've asked; I'm just looking for clues really. Above all, if any of my questions' premises are off, please don't take them as claim-to-fact.
Love (really, best car I've ever had) my WRX but have been peeping the STi's perks lately and am considering trading in the WRX to get a '14 STi hatch before the new body style (puke) is the only option.
Looking for technical answers and experience-based opinions regarding some of the more (and less) subtle aspects of the differences between the two cars. I'm familiar with most of the differences that one would find in their respective brochures. I mostly drive on the street, but when it's offroad it's pretty rough, and if/when I visit the snowy places, I want some giant parking lot drifting to be gratifying, not frustrating.
Driveline
1) Does the WRX use any of it's "hill assist" tech/hardware to simulate LSD behaviors, a la Toyota? (they apply the brakes on slippy wheels). Scenario here is muddy trails and one tire with traction vs 3 with little.
2) Is there any (hill assist or not) intelligent left/right diff control in either the WRX or STi? I believe the C6 Z06 has active yaw control and uses the brakes to control it. Scenario here is driving fast through mud/snow but not necessarily "drifting".
3) Are the WRX F/R diffs open, where the STi's are torsen-style LSD's?
4) Is the WRX's viscous center diff's proportioning ratio (of course it's equal bias front and rear, but there's still a bias ratio in either scenario) a known quantity?
5) Has anyone driven both a WRX and an STi in the dirt/snow and can comment on how they drift differently (or not so differently)?
Engine & Trans
My sole WRX complaint is the TB inlet hose. What a POS. Only mod to my car was swapping this out for a Mishimoto. STi's TMIC inherently solves this. But...
6) Does the STi have it's own unique equivalent Achilles heel to the WRX inlet hose? Something else, perhaps in another category?
7) Has anyone been able to determine what the variable valve timing on the exhaust valve nets the STi engine?
8) Is there anything about the STi block or internals that justify getting a '14 STi over a '13 WRX (thinking mods-support). Forged pistons? Beefy block? Better oiling/cooling?
9) SI-Drive: I've read all kinds of misinformation, but in the end, I don't know what's truth and not. Is this just a TPS gimmick or are real a/f/timing adjustments correlating with these different settings? In any case, when one gets an Accessport, for instance, does each uploaded replacement tune cover all the SI-drive modes and stay true to that idea, or does that console **** become obsolete?
10) Same SI-Drive question for STi's getting custom tunes from local places (Equlibrium in Fairfield is who'd be doing my tuning once I'm ready)
11) Is the 6MT's second gear closer to first than the WRX's 5MT? What about the 6MT syncros and shifting performance compared to the 5MT?
Suspension & Brakes
My WRX rides great, and despite bottoming out once in a while, it's not-abusive ride is perfect for me.
I'm expecting the STi to have stiffer springs/shock valving, be set closer to the ground than the WRX, and also have bigger overall tire diameter (and shorter sidewalls) all contribute to it riding more harshly but:
12) Is the STi's bump-travel lesser than the WRX's bump-travel? What about from full-droop?
13) Are STi bump stops any different than the WRX's? Mine seem inadequate at best. Hard braking + bump = BLAM!!!
14) Is any part of the STi's suspension adjustable?
15) Does the STi undercarriage hang lower to the ground than on a WRX (ignoring fender gap). If so does the STi come with any skid plate or protection that a WRX doesn't?
16) Do the STi brakes have anything to keep dirt/rocks out of the braking mechanisms? I got a rock stuck in my WRX brakes last time I was in the rough. Suspect it was between the splash shield and something else, but pretty annoying/dangerous to stop and deal with on the side of the highway.
17) Do the larger STi brakes perform better enough to justify the increased unsprung weight?
18) Does the STi brake intelligently if the front wheels are turned? Apparently Evo's do this, so whatever the feature's title phrase. Is the STi ABS system any different than the WRX?
19) Are the STi's brake pads some exotic Ferrari part number, or available at most places that sell brake pads?
20) Has anyone ever heard of a person who bought an STi but concluded that a WRX would have been a better bang-for-the-buck?
Love (really, best car I've ever had) my WRX but have been peeping the STi's perks lately and am considering trading in the WRX to get a '14 STi hatch before the new body style (puke) is the only option.
Looking for technical answers and experience-based opinions regarding some of the more (and less) subtle aspects of the differences between the two cars. I'm familiar with most of the differences that one would find in their respective brochures. I mostly drive on the street, but when it's offroad it's pretty rough, and if/when I visit the snowy places, I want some giant parking lot drifting to be gratifying, not frustrating.
Driveline
1) Does the WRX use any of it's "hill assist" tech/hardware to simulate LSD behaviors, a la Toyota? (they apply the brakes on slippy wheels). Scenario here is muddy trails and one tire with traction vs 3 with little.
2) Is there any (hill assist or not) intelligent left/right diff control in either the WRX or STi? I believe the C6 Z06 has active yaw control and uses the brakes to control it. Scenario here is driving fast through mud/snow but not necessarily "drifting".
3) Are the WRX F/R diffs open, where the STi's are torsen-style LSD's?
4) Is the WRX's viscous center diff's proportioning ratio (of course it's equal bias front and rear, but there's still a bias ratio in either scenario) a known quantity?
5) Has anyone driven both a WRX and an STi in the dirt/snow and can comment on how they drift differently (or not so differently)?
Engine & Trans
My sole WRX complaint is the TB inlet hose. What a POS. Only mod to my car was swapping this out for a Mishimoto. STi's TMIC inherently solves this. But...
6) Does the STi have it's own unique equivalent Achilles heel to the WRX inlet hose? Something else, perhaps in another category?
7) Has anyone been able to determine what the variable valve timing on the exhaust valve nets the STi engine?
8) Is there anything about the STi block or internals that justify getting a '14 STi over a '13 WRX (thinking mods-support). Forged pistons? Beefy block? Better oiling/cooling?
9) SI-Drive: I've read all kinds of misinformation, but in the end, I don't know what's truth and not. Is this just a TPS gimmick or are real a/f/timing adjustments correlating with these different settings? In any case, when one gets an Accessport, for instance, does each uploaded replacement tune cover all the SI-drive modes and stay true to that idea, or does that console **** become obsolete?
10) Same SI-Drive question for STi's getting custom tunes from local places (Equlibrium in Fairfield is who'd be doing my tuning once I'm ready)
11) Is the 6MT's second gear closer to first than the WRX's 5MT? What about the 6MT syncros and shifting performance compared to the 5MT?
Suspension & Brakes
My WRX rides great, and despite bottoming out once in a while, it's not-abusive ride is perfect for me.
I'm expecting the STi to have stiffer springs/shock valving, be set closer to the ground than the WRX, and also have bigger overall tire diameter (and shorter sidewalls) all contribute to it riding more harshly but:
12) Is the STi's bump-travel lesser than the WRX's bump-travel? What about from full-droop?
13) Are STi bump stops any different than the WRX's? Mine seem inadequate at best. Hard braking + bump = BLAM!!!
14) Is any part of the STi's suspension adjustable?
15) Does the STi undercarriage hang lower to the ground than on a WRX (ignoring fender gap). If so does the STi come with any skid plate or protection that a WRX doesn't?
16) Do the STi brakes have anything to keep dirt/rocks out of the braking mechanisms? I got a rock stuck in my WRX brakes last time I was in the rough. Suspect it was between the splash shield and something else, but pretty annoying/dangerous to stop and deal with on the side of the highway.
17) Do the larger STi brakes perform better enough to justify the increased unsprung weight?
18) Does the STi brake intelligently if the front wheels are turned? Apparently Evo's do this, so whatever the feature's title phrase. Is the STi ABS system any different than the WRX?
19) Are the STi's brake pads some exotic Ferrari part number, or available at most places that sell brake pads?
20) Has anyone ever heard of a person who bought an STi but concluded that a WRX would have been a better bang-for-the-buck?
02-08-2014, 01:35 PM
#3
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Concord
Posts: 5
Car Info: '13 WRX
Do you really think I don't know that or haven't already tried searching? I find that hard to believe.
Usually it yields a whole lot of discussion (and complaints that those people too didn't use search lol) that amounts to resolving semantics issues because people either asked or answered (or both) equivocally.
I seek specific information with a contextual component that won't be found doing the searches that, yes, I have already tried doing, on this site and others. I also don't have the luxury of free time that others might, and, if the questions I've asked here get answered, it would seem to be a valuably concise place for others to find answers without tons of searching themselves.
Usually it yields a whole lot of discussion (and complaints that those people too didn't use search lol) that amounts to resolving semantics issues because people either asked or answered (or both) equivocally.
I seek specific information with a contextual component that won't be found doing the searches that, yes, I have already tried doing, on this site and others. I also don't have the luxury of free time that others might, and, if the questions I've asked here get answered, it would seem to be a valuably concise place for others to find answers without tons of searching themselves.
02-22-2014, 05:57 AM
#5
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 3
I think the best bang would be sticking to the Rex instead of an sti. Sounds like you rally as much as possible and the price difference that you will be spending on an sti plus replacing broken parts will outweigh what you have as of now. Just my opinion, but if them dolla bills are no option then
1- f u
2- do it
1- f u
2- do it
02-22-2014, 10:02 AM
#7
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: turlock ca
Posts: 649
Car Info: '14 Wrx Hatchback
I'm really curious to see if the new Sti will be worth trading in my 14 hatch on as well, think that I will reserve judgement on the '15s looks and performance until I see it in person. Also at risk of starting a shi*storm will the new STi be as brilliant in the corners as the Evo X, when I drove a 13 Gsr I was blown away by how much better it felt in most areas than the STi.
02-22-2014, 10:54 AM
#8
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Napa
Posts: 396
Car Info: 2011 Subaru WRX STI Sedan
I can't speak to a lot of the wrx's differences, because I jumped straight into a brand new 11 STI sedan, I did drive a wrx before purchasing the STI though and I can honestly say that the shifting Is a lot more "refined" in my opinion with the STI. First gear is shorter on the STI than the wrx for sure. That will however, give you a better opportunity to keep the car in the power band while on the trails. The SI DRIVE with no tune will change mainly the throttle positioning, (more sensitive to throttle pressure) you can go half throttle in "S" mode and switch to S# and feel the power increase immediately with no throttle change. I still don't completely understand the DCCD although I know you can make it a full lock front diff. The 6 speed is one of the best manual trans on the market too. The brake pads (which I just replaced) are available almost anywhere from different distributors. They are without a doubt the easiest brakes I've ever replaced. I have the stop tech street performance compound and they are amazing. As far as tunes go, I am only stage 1 with an AEM CAI and exhaust, but the SI drive affects the boost controller mainly, "I" mode gives roughly 7-9 lbs of boost, "S" mode bumps it up to 12-14 lbs. where "S#" bumps boost up to 17-19 lbs (19 lbs with the initial surge). The Achilles on the STI is fuel delivery from the stock tune, it will feel like there's a bit of a lull at 4,000 rpm for a quick second, but any tune takes care of that, or you can replace the 2 piece fuel line in the engine bay for a 1 piece. All in all, If I was in the market to buy another car, I wouldn't consider anything other than the STI but that is just my opinion. Hope any of that helps.
02-22-2014, 11:21 AM
#9
Registered User
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 1,035
Car Info: 02 WRX Wagon
1) Does the WRX use any of it's "hill assist" tech/hardware to simulate LSD behaviors, a la Toyota? (they apply the brakes on slippy wheels). Scenario here is muddy trails and one tire with traction vs 3 with little.
No, this is only done on the '15 wrx and called torque vectoring
2) Is there any (hill assist or not) intelligent left/right diff control in either the WRX or STi? I believe the C6 Z06 has active yaw control and uses the brakes to control it. Scenario here is driving fast through mud/snow but not necessarily "drifting".
Neither has active torque management from left to right, and only the STI center diff is electronically controlled. The front/rear on the STI is mechanical/clutch type while WRX gets open diffs pretty much universally.
3) Are the WRX F/R diffs open, where the STi's are torsen-style LSD's?
WRX is open, some STI are torsen front and rear, some are torsen front and clutch pack rear.
4) Is the WRX's viscous center diff's proportioning ratio (of course it's equal bias front and rear, but there's still a bias ratio in either scenario) a known quantity?
I THINK it is slightly front drive biased, like 55/45 or 60/40 but I can't find any proof right now.
5) Has anyone driven both a WRX and an STi in the dirt/snow and can comment on how they drift differently (or not so differently)?
Very different on and off throttle, diff's impact is the most influential in these situations
6) Does the STi have it's own unique equivalent Achilles heel to the WRX inlet hose? Something else, perhaps in another category?
Not sure what you mean here, they all have the same ****ty turbo inlet hose configuration. There are a number of common flaws - radiators are plastic capped, STI PS pumps tend to go out/get noisy, I heard some of the newer STIs have cheaper piston materials than prior versions, etc
7) Has anyone been able to determine what the variable valve timing on the exhaust valve nets the STi engine?
huh? more torque, particularly at lower revs. Probably less so up top. They haven't changed the peak power output figure from 300HP for close to 20 years now, but they have made the curve wider and flatter across the rev range.
8) Is there anything about the STi block or internals that justify getting a '14 STi over a '13 WRX (thinking mods-support). Forged pistons? Beefy block? Better oiling/cooling?
There may be a few differences, but nothing vital. The major difference in the cars is the driveline. 5 speed vs 6 speed and differentials. Drive them both aggressively and you'll feel the difference.
9) SI-Drive: I've read all kinds of misinformation, but in the end, I don't know what's truth and not. Is this just a TPS gimmick or are real a/f/timing adjustments correlating with these different settings? In any case, when one gets an Accessport, for instance, does each uploaded replacement tune cover all the SI-drive modes and stay true to that idea, or does that console **** become obsolete?
I don't know much about the SI system...
10) Same SI-Drive question for STi's getting custom tunes from local places (Equlibrium in Fairfield is who'd be doing my tuning once I'm ready)
see above
11) Is the 6MT's second gear closer to first than the WRX's 5MT? What about the 6MT syncros and shifting performance compared to the 5MT?
Yes, the second gear is shorter and closer to 1st than the 5 speed. This is part of what hampers 0-60 time on the STI, since 2nd runs out at like 55mph or so. Neither one puts up with extensive rough shifting, but personally I like the feel of the 5 speed myself.
12) Is the STi's bump-travel lesser than the WRX's bump-travel? What about from full-droop?
not sure, but I think they are basically the same from full droop.
13) Are STi bump stops any different than the WRX's? Mine seem inadequate at best. Hard braking + bump = BLAM!!!
don't know about the new versions, but the 04-07 STIs have internal bump stops while the WRX has external yellow rubber types.
14) Is any part of the STi's suspension adjustable?
no, and that's how it should be.
15) Does the STi undercarriage hang lower to the ground than on a WRX (ignoring fender gap). If so does the STi come with any skid plate or protection that a WRX doesn't?
about 20mm lower if I remember correctly, and no extra protection
16) Do the STi brakes have anything to keep dirt/rocks out of the braking mechanisms? I got a rock stuck in my WRX brakes last time I was in the rough. Suspect it was between the splash shield and something else, but pretty annoying/dangerous to stop and deal with on the side of the highway.
No, most off-roaders remover the splash shield after they get tired of bending it out of the way/clearing rocks out of it.
17) Do the larger STi brakes perform better enough to justify the increased unsprung weight?
The STI brakes last longer in track conditions, and have a million pads available for them. Enough/not enough is subjective
18) Does the STi brake intelligently if the front wheels are turned? Apparently Evo's do this, so whatever the feature's title phrase. Is the STi ABS system any different than the WRX?
Don't know, but I don't think so.
19) Are the STi's brake pads some exotic Ferrari part number, or available at most places that sell brake pads?
STIs use the same brembo caliper that is stock on a handfull of other cars and there are a million different brands and types of pads available.
20) Has anyone ever heard of a person who bought an STi but concluded that a WRX would have been a better bang-for-the-buck?
Very few people have the power to convince themselves that their ~$30,000 expense was not the best possible buy. Expensive purchases often involve a lot of careful research and deliberation, and many consumers will often refuse to admit that their decision was made in poor judgement. Many purchasing decisions are made emotionally, based on factors such as brand-loyalty and advertising, and so are often rationalized retrospectively in an attempt to justify the choice.
No, this is only done on the '15 wrx and called torque vectoring
2) Is there any (hill assist or not) intelligent left/right diff control in either the WRX or STi? I believe the C6 Z06 has active yaw control and uses the brakes to control it. Scenario here is driving fast through mud/snow but not necessarily "drifting".
Neither has active torque management from left to right, and only the STI center diff is electronically controlled. The front/rear on the STI is mechanical/clutch type while WRX gets open diffs pretty much universally.
3) Are the WRX F/R diffs open, where the STi's are torsen-style LSD's?
WRX is open, some STI are torsen front and rear, some are torsen front and clutch pack rear.
4) Is the WRX's viscous center diff's proportioning ratio (of course it's equal bias front and rear, but there's still a bias ratio in either scenario) a known quantity?
I THINK it is slightly front drive biased, like 55/45 or 60/40 but I can't find any proof right now.
5) Has anyone driven both a WRX and an STi in the dirt/snow and can comment on how they drift differently (or not so differently)?
Very different on and off throttle, diff's impact is the most influential in these situations
6) Does the STi have it's own unique equivalent Achilles heel to the WRX inlet hose? Something else, perhaps in another category?
Not sure what you mean here, they all have the same ****ty turbo inlet hose configuration. There are a number of common flaws - radiators are plastic capped, STI PS pumps tend to go out/get noisy, I heard some of the newer STIs have cheaper piston materials than prior versions, etc
7) Has anyone been able to determine what the variable valve timing on the exhaust valve nets the STi engine?
huh? more torque, particularly at lower revs. Probably less so up top. They haven't changed the peak power output figure from 300HP for close to 20 years now, but they have made the curve wider and flatter across the rev range.
8) Is there anything about the STi block or internals that justify getting a '14 STi over a '13 WRX (thinking mods-support). Forged pistons? Beefy block? Better oiling/cooling?
There may be a few differences, but nothing vital. The major difference in the cars is the driveline. 5 speed vs 6 speed and differentials. Drive them both aggressively and you'll feel the difference.
9) SI-Drive: I've read all kinds of misinformation, but in the end, I don't know what's truth and not. Is this just a TPS gimmick or are real a/f/timing adjustments correlating with these different settings? In any case, when one gets an Accessport, for instance, does each uploaded replacement tune cover all the SI-drive modes and stay true to that idea, or does that console **** become obsolete?
I don't know much about the SI system...
10) Same SI-Drive question for STi's getting custom tunes from local places (Equlibrium in Fairfield is who'd be doing my tuning once I'm ready)
see above
11) Is the 6MT's second gear closer to first than the WRX's 5MT? What about the 6MT syncros and shifting performance compared to the 5MT?
Yes, the second gear is shorter and closer to 1st than the 5 speed. This is part of what hampers 0-60 time on the STI, since 2nd runs out at like 55mph or so. Neither one puts up with extensive rough shifting, but personally I like the feel of the 5 speed myself.
12) Is the STi's bump-travel lesser than the WRX's bump-travel? What about from full-droop?
not sure, but I think they are basically the same from full droop.
13) Are STi bump stops any different than the WRX's? Mine seem inadequate at best. Hard braking + bump = BLAM!!!
don't know about the new versions, but the 04-07 STIs have internal bump stops while the WRX has external yellow rubber types.
14) Is any part of the STi's suspension adjustable?
no, and that's how it should be.
15) Does the STi undercarriage hang lower to the ground than on a WRX (ignoring fender gap). If so does the STi come with any skid plate or protection that a WRX doesn't?
about 20mm lower if I remember correctly, and no extra protection
16) Do the STi brakes have anything to keep dirt/rocks out of the braking mechanisms? I got a rock stuck in my WRX brakes last time I was in the rough. Suspect it was between the splash shield and something else, but pretty annoying/dangerous to stop and deal with on the side of the highway.
No, most off-roaders remover the splash shield after they get tired of bending it out of the way/clearing rocks out of it.
17) Do the larger STi brakes perform better enough to justify the increased unsprung weight?
The STI brakes last longer in track conditions, and have a million pads available for them. Enough/not enough is subjective
18) Does the STi brake intelligently if the front wheels are turned? Apparently Evo's do this, so whatever the feature's title phrase. Is the STi ABS system any different than the WRX?
Don't know, but I don't think so.
19) Are the STi's brake pads some exotic Ferrari part number, or available at most places that sell brake pads?
STIs use the same brembo caliper that is stock on a handfull of other cars and there are a million different brands and types of pads available.
20) Has anyone ever heard of a person who bought an STi but concluded that a WRX would have been a better bang-for-the-buck?
Very few people have the power to convince themselves that their ~$30,000 expense was not the best possible buy. Expensive purchases often involve a lot of careful research and deliberation, and many consumers will often refuse to admit that their decision was made in poor judgement. Many purchasing decisions are made emotionally, based on factors such as brand-loyalty and advertising, and so are often rationalized retrospectively in an attempt to justify the choice.
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