You are twisitng facts and showing your general ignorance. As for calling a BMW a "snob appeal" car, your insecurity and inferiority complex is showing, so you might cover up a bit (you sound like you've never driven a WRX or a BMW anyway).

Generalizations you say? How about this?

I own a BMW (MY00 528iAT) and an 02 WRX. Now who is qualified to compare? The BMW is plainly better in every department EXCEPT acceleration (including handling).

The BMW has never squeeked rattled once, over Connecticut streets broken up by winter storms, over bumpy California backroads, etc. You can carry on a conversation whispering in the car. The transmission and engine are solid and have always worked PERFECTLY. The only part on the car that has ever been fixed is a cup holder (my daughter broke it with her foot). By the way, the dealer service is fabulous.

I love my WRX, FOR WHAT IT IS, but it just cannot match the quality of a BMW, period. The WRX squeeks, it rattles, the transmission is junk, the clutch had to be replaced under warranty, the seats squeek, the air conditioner has never worked right, the engine required major adjustments to get it to stop hesitating at certain RPMs, and getting all of this fixed was a nighmare because the dealer service is subpar. Still, it's a super fun, but still crappy car.

You want to talk snob appeal? My sister's best friend's husband bought an STi. He tried to drag her away from lunch to show the STi to her. She said, no thanks, my brother has a WRX, so I've seen cars like that before.

The guy started yelling, "don't ever compare my car to a WRX! It's totally different!" Blah blah blah blah...

He got so worked up that he scared his wife into crying and she had to slink into the bathroom.

Cheap performance folks take this stuff much too seriously, as if their car is part of their identity or making up for something they lack. I find people who take insult about their cars are so hilarious. There are so many more important things in life.

Get a life; it is just a car. I just call em like I see em. I own a WRX. It's fun, but the quality is seriously lacking. But what can you expect for $24K? I guess I got what I expected. We paid more for the BMW, and got what we expected there too... Glad to have the safe car for my wife to cart the kids around. I have fun in the WRX despite the frustrating quality problems.

(1) The G35C has 287HP (280 published), naturally aspirated and very nice performance numbers. You say that doesn't compare? Interesting...

(2) Define MUCH. That's called a generalization.

(3) No one said anything about a 330xi, I believe I was specifically referring to the 330 Sport Version. Read and get your facts straight before spouting off.

You are confusing INITIAL quality with build quality. Check your facts.

Consistently? You exaggerate. Cite evidence for this "consistency."

If you want to know when I get that "tin-can" remark, slam the door of your Impreza. Do you have one? If you did, you'd understand instead of just spouting unfounded opinions.

I agree. It makes you look silly, just as I said. Especially when you don't have any evidence, or basis with which to actually compare the cars and are speaking from unfounded opinion as if you really know what you are talking about.

That sort of approach really makes one lose credibility, if you know what I mean.

Edit to fix a typo

 

I would never compare a 5 series with the WRX/STi. Even a 3 series is higher quality, but talk about a 318ti and now we are talk "more" comparable. A 5 series starts at 37k. If subby spent 5000 more on the build then it SHOULD compare. We STi/WRX owners should be honest with ourselves - we want fast-fun-comfort; in that order; we sac comfort for fast and fun. If we want all three we should look at the RS4, S4, M3, or M5.

Sounds like a lemon car and dealer. Had my 2002 WRX - exactly 0 repair issues and one dash squeek in the drivers side. My service manager was awesome for the WRX - and I hope this will continue for the STi.

Totally agree here - open the window a bit and shut the door - the sounds made me think I was breaking the car.

We should remember - One is not paying for the interior or the doors, it is the engine, brakes, and the drive line. This makes the car fun - no comfort needed.

Point being:
You want to have it all - pull out the checkbook.

 

Rally bred factory rod - not a race car. You want a race car - buy a prodrive prepped car. This is a factory rocket. All street 'rods' have the same limitations. Cobra, Z06, S4, M3 - more power than ou need for the road, but still have to pass the Fed sniff test.



Brand new cars should not sqeak or rattle. Old cars yes. new no. I agree the first two years of any cars life there is the bad apple like cmlnr seemed to get, but I get his point about excessive crap factor in his WRX. Some may find their STi has similar issues. Time will tell.

 

Why do I once again get the feeling you are pushing opinion on us as fact, when it isn't?

Have you DRIVEN an M3? I have. Extensively as a matter of fact. I was very seriously considering buying an M3 (papers all drawn up) until they started dicking around on delivery and lease factor.

The M3 handles much better than the WRX, 02 or 04 (same suspension). It is refined and predictable. The WRX can get pretty whacky in tough spots.

Ever experienced the feeling of no stopping power when slamming on the brakes in a hard turn with bumpy pavement? Enter WRX ABS. Terrifying. The M3 (and the 528) just giggle at stuff like this.

Granted, the WRX is raw fun. The handling on the M3 is much more refined. Is it worth the price difference? Depends on what your priorities are I guess.

But the WRX does not beat the M3 in performance. That's just plain silly. The WRX brakes suck, the suspension can be unpredictable at the limits and the engine doesn't have enough (any?) torque at low RPMs.

The M3 has gobs of torque, outrageous brakes (stopping power and modulation) and very refined suspension.

What ARE you talking about? Getting the sickly feeling that I am debating with a 15 year old here... The WRX is NOT a race car. It is a cheap econobox with a hot engine.

Granted, the Impreza frame has been stripped and rebuilt as a rally car, but that still doesn't make the WRX a racing car.

In fact, BMW is more genuine in this respect. Remember the V8 M3 they put on sale? The model that was raced (and barred from racing for being too fast) and the model they put on sale were essentially identical, unlike the WRX and the WRC Impreza.

Geez... The car has squeeked and rattled since day one. NEW car, not OLD car. Get it? The BMW has NEVER squeeked.

You might check on this before flinging this out. It's my understanding that the only real bug fix that has occurred is for the piece of crap clutch.

Anyway, like I said, I have a WRX and love it despite the crap quality, but to say that a WRX outperforms an M3 is just nonsense.

If your criteria is COST PERFORMANCE, I totally agree.

If your criteria is performance, you obviously haven't driven an M3.

 

Sorry man - I gotta say it - "He's got ya downshift."

 

And this comes from all your experience behind the wheel of an M3 and an STi? Do you have any experience behind the wheel of either car?

Furthermore, I am not pik (sic) ing on the WRX. I have one. I've said repeatedly that I love it for what it is. But in the end, speaking purely objectively, the M3 is a better car.

You are confusing the point of debate.

The WRX is cheap fun. With cheap comes flaws. Can you concede that?

The WRX you buy on main street is not a racing car. Ask Subaru if you don't believe me. Look on the web to see how a "racing car" is built. Check the articles on the Impreza WRC. What you and I have is an econobox ($10,000 car in Japan - check the Japanese Subie web site) with a hot engine. Just face it; you don't own a racing car. I don't fool myself on this issue. But if it makes you feel cool, keep telling yourself you have a race car.

At a Subaru dealer in San Diego. Now wait, are you saying that certain dealers purposely introduce squeeks and rattles and other flaws into their cars?

Wait. Who's buddy? Is there a "buddy" here?

Anyway, a WRX with $5,000 of mods will have no warranty to speak of, will have a reduced life from overboost, and will cost more in the end than an M3.

Try some simple math. WRX $24,000 + $5,000 mods = $29,000. What will the car be worth in 3 years? $10,000 MAYBE (check the residuals for evidence, then subtract some), and that's if the engine/clutch, etc. survive. So the TCO over 3 years is around $20,000, plus maintenance. To be conservative, let's put the cost of maint at $1000 (probably 3x that with all the mods) for 3 years, so the TCO is $21K.

M3 is $46,500. BMW residuals are 60 - 62 on 3/36K. Let's take 61 for argument sake (even though you could probably sell it for more). So the M3 will be worth $28,365 (can you imagine buying an M3 for that cheap? I checked cars.com and can't find one for under $44K).

Also, the M3 includes 4 years/50,000 free bumper to bumper maintanance, which includes a loaner car, so there is no cost of maint.

The BMW only loses $18,135 (only $3-4K if you look at actual resale versus residual) in value over 3 years (compared to $21K on the modded WRX), meaning the TCO of the BMW is $2,865 less than the WRX (or the WRX TCO is $17,000 more than the BMW if you look at actual resale value of the M3).

So the BMW is CHEAPER to own, has better performance (than the STi also) AND IT DOESN'T SQUEEK AND RATTLE!

Let's see... BMW is less than Subaru to own, performs better, is better built...

DAMN! Why did I buy the WRX over the M3 (kicking self really hard).

It was an emotional decision. The BMW dealer miffed me, so I walked out and bought the WRX on the way home, on a whim, because it put a big smile on my face that I couldn't get rid of...

Are you talking about the base WRX or the STi? What's "its WRX sti mean?" You aren't making sense.

And have you driven an M3? You don't mention this anywhere.

Anyway, I'll stick to the facts, based on intimate experience with both cars, you stick to your opinion.

We'll agree to disagree and call it done.

 

Hi, I own an STi and have driven/ raced my friend's 2002 M3. I posted my reactions to them in another forum on pg. 2:

http://www.imprezawrxsti.com/postnuk...eaa9a1d355921c

I'll be glad to answer any questions people may have since everyone seems to be basing their opinio on speculation...

 

Don't ever believe a dealer. You should have had him put it in writing! "This is a race car" (<-- kidding)

I think I have agreed that it's quick, raw fun several times. No debate there.

If you catch 'em off guard, you might, but I suspect that anyone that drives an M3 will be either (1) prepared or (2) just ignore a WRX driver as a punk (their thinking, not mine!)

Let's trade!

Actually, if you look at the numbers, the M3 is cheaper to own. No more spur of the moment emotional decisions for me! I wish I would have run the numbers. Used 2001 M3's are still going for $44K. M3's have always held their value.

Also, please be careful about modding. It does affect reliability, no matter what anyone might tell you. My father and uncle grew up modding cars. HP comes at the price of reliability.

No thanks. No M3 for me. Probably getting a G35C (great article in AutoWeek today), or basic transportation (Honda Civic) and spend the difference remodeling my house or buying a horse. Haven't decided yet. Driving a fast car is nice, but I think at 35, I'm finally starting to grow out of it. But an '86 Ferrari 308GTB might be nice. Mmmm mmmm. $29K. Still a stunning shape after 17 years. Got to snap out of it. No more fast cars. I do not need a fast car. I do not need a fast car...

(not working)

BMW's new design direction has turned me off. 7 series, now the 5 series. If they go and ruin the 3 series, I'll never buy another BMW again. Chris Bangle might get lynched. We shall see.