First off can someone tell me how big the stock bar is?

Second has anyone on here put on a smaller front swaybar or taken their front swaybar off all together? I got this idea from a non wrx driver who thought it might work.

 

it is 19mm stock

and just why on earth would you try that? Its bound to increase body roll. Just hope your not taking tight corners with that setup. I can just see like a wheel slightly off the ground in the front....

If anything i hear you increase the rear sway bar as a common practice to sharpen up handling, I could be wrong though i'm not a suspension expert.

From what i'm told though.

stiffen up the rear sway bar for more oversteer

I suppose your trying to loosen up the front for the same effect? I would leave it in place.

 

actually if you go to a larger (22-24 adjustable) your tires are much more likely to come of the ground. The more body roll you introduce (smaller sway) the more the tires stay on the ground but the body of the car rolls, you know...that horrible feeling we get like the carss going to flip,...... when u stiffen it up (larger sway) decreasing body roll your forcing more pressure on the tires to adhease. It can be very easy if you dont know the limits of your tires to slide them in an oversteer or understeer sinerio with larger sway bars... but if you realize the tires limitations it allows you to push the car right to the edge which is why the better handling.

-K

 

over in the suspension threads, a guy was asking a while back, but never found one.

The advantages of going smaller in front would be that you can stay stock (can add/remove or change front swaybar in stock class)
However, this would negatively effect your handling although it would make a little less oversteer.

In rally, or offroad, a lighter swaybar could be advantageous. Like in rallycross, since it'l allow the wheels to follow rough terrain better. However, for autoX, I'd advise sticking with stock, or increasing the rear (or increasing both together).

GL

 

Due to the MacPherson strut suspension the can gains positive camber on the outside wheel in proportion to the amount of body roll. From what I saw on a couple Nasioc posts it's roughly 2° of body roll = 1° of positive camber gain. While conventional wisdom tells us that a smaller bar will decrease weight transfer there by increasing grip in this case the grip gained by a better contact patch is greater than the negative impact of the increased load transfer to the outside tire. As with all things this is only good to a certain point. I don't know where this point is. It's dependent upon vehicle weight, spring rate, and other suspension modifications that would affect ride height and roll rate. It seems that the consensus is 22-24mm is a good size for the front on a WRX (Nasioc reference again).

Regarding staying in a stock auto-x class, you can upgrade the front bar in the stock class, but you can't touch the rear bar.

 

Referencing Caroll Smith:

If the car initially points in and then washes out the possible causes include:
Too much front toe-in
Insufficient front roll camber compensation
Non-linear load transfer due to roll axis inclination
Insufficient front wheel travel in droop
Too little front shock bump resistance

If it won't point in look at at the following:
Front roll stiffness too high
Front roll center too low
Too little front shock bump resistance
Excessive dynamic positive camber on outside front tire
Braking too hard and too late (this is usually me)
Too little front roll resistance - can be reduced by increasing front roll resistance even though it will increase lateral load transfer. (this generally applies to the Impreza)

 

i tried it and it wasn't pretty. the car didn't handle the way i liked it. the turn in response suffered. also the increased suspension compliance in the front caused my inside rear tire to lift considerably. by the way, my set up is 500 lb/in springs (front), 600 lb/in springs (rear), 21mm rear sway bar on stiffest setting, and stock 19 mm front sway bar.

 

What kind of coilovers so you have? Don't tell me you're running that high a rate on stock struts.... For a STOCK vehicle in STOCK class.. a front bar will do wonders. Bars are only a small part of suspension tuning. There's plenty of info on the web about how to tune, along with books, I'm not going to get into it here.

I have a 22mm front bar and a 20-24 adj rear bar, Tein RA struts with 560 front, 672 rear. Turnin is CRISP. Midcorner push can be had, but it's driver induced. Corner exit... get on the power. Transisions in slaloms... faster than I've ever gone in any car yet. Rotates when and where I want it.

Madlib.... check your alignment... that also plays a big part in how turnin feels. I have -3 deg camber, stock caster, and about 1/8" toe out in the front and -.8 camber rear and 1/16 toe IN at the rear. I don't recommend these setting for a daily driver... but if you want auto-x performance, it's a tradeoff.

--kC
2003 SCCA Solo-II and ProSolo STX National Champion

 

How is this setup for street driving? I'm having some success in STU on basically stock suspension with competition alignment settings, and considering which direction I want to go for the next phase. I'm forced to commute with my car, so I'm concerned about spring rates, especially with the moon-like surface of Detroit streets. Right now, I'm thinking aggressive bars on stock struts with stock springs or MAYBE the STi "pink" springs. I'd rather do a coil-over setup, but I don't want to punish myself (or the kids) driving in town.

What tires are you on?

Thanks,
Itazura
ee-tots-ooh-ruh

BTW- The whole "disconnect the FSB" thing seems to be pretty common among early Volkswagen GTI folks, I don't think it's the right way to go for us in Auto-X. The weight transfer advantage is outweighed by the camber loss disadvantage.