pyrilium

I've heard that aftermarket pads can make a big difference in braking performance, and I see a lot of different vendors represented here. Can anyone help me to distill the various mods listed here into reasonable recommendations for replacement on a car that's driven entirely street but rather agressively?

Also, how hard is it for a mechanically inclined person to swap out pads and rotors? I don't really want to pay a mechanic to do the work if I can do it (because I'd rather enjoy doing it) but I do have work to balance as far as time goes. Anyone who can relate personal experiences would be awesome!

Thanks,
p

Flanders

iTrader: (6)

You should tell us what you drive. Just buy something from www.boxer4racing.com

pyrilium

Yeah, that might help...

'98 Legacy/Outback wagon, stock pads coming up for second replacement at ~67k. I've heard that many people make pads better than stock, which is why I ask.

.p

pyrilium

I'd prefer to not replace except necessary (I'm on a budget). From what I've heard I will probably have to replace rear rotors with pads, but possibly not front. If possible, I'd like to improve my brake responsiveness/linearity (linear vs. pedal pressure) without excesess cost.

Thanks,
.p

DLC

Replacing pads is easy, and the rotors are just a little bit harder.

1) remove wheel
2) remove the two bolts holding the caliper on (from behind)
3) replace rotor
4) replace pads
5) reinstall caliper
6) reinstall wheel

For every brand of pad there are people who like and dislike them. Stock is OK, and will always give decent life and good feel. Tires also have a lot to do with how well you can brake, and how the brakes feel. Suspension affects it as well. Some things to consider.

that one legacy

iTrader: (5)

if you're just installing new pads, you only need to remove one bolt from the caliper. after you take the wheel off, if you look at the caliper itself, you'll see one bolt sticking out the back on one end, and on the other end is what looks like a rounded off bolt (it's not though, it's a pivot pin). remove the actual bolt, and then just swing the caliper up on the pivot pin, and the old pads will fall right out!

the tools you'll need are:

14mm wrench (use a box wrench, you don't want to round this bolt off!)
lug wrench
jack
jack stands

takes all of 30 minutes to swap out pads on one end. for rotors, add like another 10 minutes. one warning though, if you've just driven your car, let it cool down for an hour or so before doing anything with the brakes (or get some really good gloves), cause they'll be hot!

pyrilium

Looks like I've got a project for next weekend then

I'm thinking I'll probably go stock pads. I've never had a problem with them, and I figure there are probably reasons (even reasons beyond cost) that made subaru choose the composition they did.

Quick edit: I'm thinking replace rotors with pads front & back - they're original to the car w/ 67K on it. Any thoughts (specifically on whether the front rotors could stay)?

I dunno if it's OK to discuss suppliers here, but if it is does anyone have recommendations for where to buy OEM parts (and maybe aftermarket too, incase I change my mind >..< ) I know of one dealer who's supposed to have good prices, but I want the best!

p

pyrilium

If replacing pads and rotors really is this easy, is there any reason to replace the rotors now (with the pads)? Couldn't I just replace the pads now, then replace the rotors if performance is poor or when they warp/sufficiently wear out?

Thanks!!

p

that one legacy

iTrader: (5)

i buy my pads from Pep Boys, or Auto Zone, whichever i happen to be closest to when i remember to buy them! make sure you buy at least one pack of the disc brake quiet too, you'll definitely regret it if you don't!

as far as the rotors, as long as they're not too thin, and not warped, you really don't need to replace them at all. a good set of rotors should last through at least two or three sets of pads (in the front anyway), as long as you don't go around doing 60-0 mph tests all the time! also, the rear pads only do like 30% of the work when braking, so unless they're paper thin, you can probably run on them for a while. the fronts though, that's a completely different story.

one hint, you might want to get a short bungee cord, or something of the sort to hold the caliper in place when you swing it out of the way. trust me on this, if that caliper swings back down on your hand while you're installing the pads, it's gonna hurt like hell!

oh and i forgot, you do need a few other things:

C Clamp
latex/rubber gloves
Brake Cleaner
hand cleaner (VERY important!)
rubber mallet (be careful with this though)

the gloves, brake cleaner, and hand cleaner should be obvious. just remember to make sure you have those gloves on when you're applying the disc brake quiet, cause that stuff's very difficult to get off your skin. also, the brake cleaner, just spray it very liberally all over the brake system (don't saturate the lines though!) after you take the wheel off. give it a few minutes to dry off, and DON'T inhale the fumes!

the c clamp (you don't need a huge one, but it does have to be big enough to clear the caliper itself) is used when you take the old pads out. what you do is the stationary part goes around and nests on the backside of the caliper. the adjustable part, you use that to depress the caliper piston (looks like a plunger with accordian ribs on the sides) so that it'll fit around the new pads.

the rubber mallet, i use that if the bolts are stuck. i spray a bit of Liquid Wrench (i've found this works a lot better than WD 40) on the bolt, put the wrench around it, then tap the handle of the wrench with the rubber mallet. works very well, and also saves your hand when the bolt finally does come loose.

so to recap, the tools you'll need are:

jack
jack stands
lug wrench
14mm wrench (box wrench is preferable for loosening and final tightening, but a ratchet is good too)
small bungee cord
c clamp
rubber mallet

and other things you'll want are:

new brake pads (duh!)
hand cleaner
Liquid Wrench
Disc Brake Quiet
gloves
brake cleaner

if you're buying all of these for the first time, it is quite an investment, but well worth it. if you already have the tools, you'll probably spend about $50 or so on the rest (pads easily cost $30/pair, $5 for the Disc Brake Quiet, $5 for the Brake Cleaner, $5 for the Liquid Wrench, etc. etc. etc.).

note that more aggressive pads might give you better performance, but may also tear the **** out of your stock rotors. if you're gonna go with high performance pads, it's probably a wise decision to switch to higher performance rotors as well.

pyrilium

I appreciate all of the information you've given me about brake replacement. I will be doing the swap this weekend, probably using stock/autozone pads because I'm not sure that anything shipped would be here by friday. I wanted to try EBC's Green Stuff pads (anyone used them?) but I don't think I'll be able to find them locally around philly.

One question about a possible snag: I fear that the front-left caliper may be stuck, because there is an excess of pad dust accumulating on that wheel. Is this something that's likely to be a problem, or is it a question of properly cleaning/lubricating/reseating the caliper piston?

Thanks
p

that one legacy

iTrader: (5)

actually, it's very likely that the caliper will be stuck. every time i change brakes on any car, it's always a pain to get the caliper loose (and if you need to get the rotor off, MAN do those things get stuck!).

this is mostly due to rust that develops, but brake dust might contribute a tiny bit to that as well. the brake cleaner, you just spray that on as liberally as possible (remember, DON'T inhale any!), and let it do its thing. the brake dust should all dissolve in a couple minutes, and it'll just drip off. what i like to do is spray one side and while i'm waiting for it to do its thing, i just walk over to the other side, remove the wheel and spray that as well. by the time i'm done with that, the first side is already dry.

remember that excessive brake dust on the wheels might just be due to the pads themselves. some pads release all kinds of dust, while others hardly release any.

also, since the caliper bolt is likely to be stuck on, you just spray it with the liquid wrench (use the provided straw!), and give it a few more minutes. an amazing amount of time on a brake job is spent just waiting around for the chemicals to do their thing! once that's done, just slip the wrench over the bolt head, and if it doesn't come loose with a few quick tugs, use the rubber mallet to tap the end of the wrench until it comes loose. you may have to give it a few really good whacks to loosen the bolt itself, so don't be afraid to really hit it.

oh and one more thing, since you have to put the car up on jacks anyway, if you have to change the oil and/or transmission fluid, you might as well do it now. brake pads take all of 20 minutes to change once the bolts are all loose anyway. plus, if you change the fluids first (hell, flush the radiator while you're at it!), that'll give the brakes time to cool down if you've just driven it. this'll all take the better part of a day, but you'll feel much better about your car when it's all done!

pyrilium

My concern is actually that the front/driver piston is somehow sticking, causing the pad to drag. The extra-heavy dust on the front driver's wheel is new (didn't happen before a month or so ago) and there's no difference between pads on the two sides. All the same, I'm still set to go for it this weekend and see how far I get. Worst comes to worst, I take the bus to work.

that one legacy

iTrader: (5)

hmm, i had a similar problem on mine which caused one pad (also on the front) to wear down completely, while the other three were perfectly fine (and almost brand new dammit!). i don't know if i actually solved that problem though, so i'm afraid i might not be much help with this. i was actually going to pull the wheels off and take a look at the brakes in a couple days though, so i'll let you know if i see anything funny on mine, and if i have any ideas on how to fix it.

that one legacy

iTrader: (5)

okay i took a look at all four of my brakes today while i was involved in another project, and it looks like i may have inadvertently solved the "dragging pad" problem. it's still a bit early to tell, mind you, but it looks as if all four front pads are wearing evenly now.

problem is that i noticed that my rear pads are almost gone, and the rotors don't have much left in them either. it never ends i tells ya!

that one legacy

iTrader: (5)

so how'd it go? you have everything working okay now?

i just swapped out the rear pads on mine earlier today, and i noticed the same problem as the fronts, with only one pad worn down, but the other three fine. it's really strange.