BoOm

iTrader: (4)

Let's face it, Subaru(like most Japanese manufacturers) don't like change. They sit on their product for years and years until it gets stale. We all love our Imprezas, Legacies, and Foresters, but I would not like driving the same car with the same dynamics and power for over 10 years like we are seeing.

Subaru sits on years of increased profitability and growth and all of it is owed to TWO cars. The Impreza and the Forester. The enthusiasts of both cars(mod scene and the practical users ie winter drivers etc) LOVE their Subarus for their dependability, enough for us to proclaim our love for them(ha! Love commercials) and to tell our friends and family to get Subaru's(I'm looking at you Ryan). Let's face it, Subaru had moderate if not lackluster success in the US before 02 when the GD Impreza WRX came out. Sure the GC Imprezas WRX/STI's were awesome, but any body who didn't follow rally or heavily into JDM cars never knew about them. Their sales and reputation totally skyrocketed from then on.

So why do I think Subaru is retarded? They either don't know what to do or they are just complacent on what they have. Their lineup has not changed for years and they are sitting on the SAME EJ2X engine for many years. The GR/GH Imprezas is just in reality an evolution of their Impreza that was long due for a while. Is it ironic that a car that advertises its toughness and heritage with RALLYING decides to pull out of the WRC? Yes, I heard the many reasons for them to pull from WRC(engine homogenization, economic turmoil, etc) but it really does sound like a stupid reason since they still fund the Subaru Rally Team USA. Speaking of SUBARU RALLY TEAM, brilliant move(IMO) Ken Block. Going to Ford is probably the BEST thing for his career and for the US Rallying market. Yes Subaru, you totally f'ed things over. You lost one of the BEST spokesperson for your motorsports image in the world(or what's left of it after withdrawing from the WRC)



I love Subaru cars, but will I buy one again with their current lineup as it stands? Nope. Look at the price of the new STI's fully loaded. Are you serious? I can buy an late model RS4, 08 C63 next year, SL55, or a new G37 for that price. Don't even bring up reliability too, the 08-on Imprezas are among the most problematic cars out there on many lists.

Long story short. Subaru, your products are stale. Unless you bring any excitement to the table, you're going to end up like Toyota. Oh wait, they brought at least some excitement for their cars again, like the FT86 and the LF-A. At least they saw the light.

VRT MBasile

iTrader: (17)

You are obviously not a business person. if you have a solid lineup with sustained profitability, why would you change stuff? Subaru said a couple of years ago it was going to go after the mainstream, grocery-getter market. That type of person does not care if the engine has been reengineered every 5 years. They don't care how the car has progressed. I'm sorry, but we, as motorsport enthusiasts are not Subaru's main market anymore.

Advertising is just that, advertising. Show me an ad that is 100% honest.

65MPH

Long shot, but hopefuly some one at subaru reads this.

dub81

iTrader: (39)

Both john and matt bring up valid points in their discussion. i would like to see more responses from other chapters/peeps. :-)

BoOm

iTrader: (4)

How quickly you are to assume I have no business sense. I'm guessing assuming things is one of your personalities.

I grew up in a family that owns multiple restaurants and helped operated a few before I finished college. I grew up learning the ropes of operating a company.

Do you even realize that eventually Subaru will lose their customers because they want something new? As they do in any business, complacency will be their downfall. What if Google stayed as a search engine without expanding, what if Apple never went into the portable music industry? Your logic amuses me. Heck, the most COMPLACENT industry in the world, oil, is vastly expanding their business into alternative energy models. You do realize that companies operate in a cycle where after they hit their peak, they go down. The brightest companies out there hit their peak and change.

I can see how you would think it makes perfect business sense, but you fail to realize that market is dominated by the likes of Honda and Toyota(which owns 16.5% of Subaru).

Re: Engine. You've got to

Max Xevious

iTrader: (8)

I guess you should look into what Subaru is doing more and read up on the PZEV engines they are producing.

http://www.drive.subaru.com/Fall08/Fall08_whatmakes.htm

VRT MBasile

iTrader: (17)

I see your logic as "They aren't doing anything beneficial for me, therefore they aren't doing anything beneficial for themselves." However, you are not part of their major target market, so why would they be doing much to please you? Weren't they working on a turbo diesel Legacy? They have been producing a number of PZEV cars. They are making their cars bigger, because that is what Americans are buying. Hell, I saw a new Outback yesterday and couldn't believe it wasn't a Forester. Subaru is making changes the the mass market wants, because that is where the money is. If the economy was better, then companies could go for those niche markets, but there's no point in doing that when it doesn't give you enough money to stay afloat, now does it?

I'm sorry for assuming you have no business experience. I saw your post as a motorsports fan rant and that assumption of a motorsports fan rant was supported by the content.

The funny thing is though, the impression I get from your post is that you're mad they are becoming stagnant, yet you seem to be pushing the idea that they should be staying in motorsports and continue going after the same motorsports enthusiast market.

bpang1

iTrader: (25)

I've been saying this for a while in regards to the engines...I think as far as your last thread about this.

I'd like to see a direct-injection 2.5l Turbo-4 boxer as well as DI for the N/A engines. This would at least keep their engines competitive with the current set.

I just read a comparison on C/D where the Forester XT places 4th to the Rav-4 V6, Tiguan and CRV. More power and/or MPG could've really helped it do better. We all know the rest of the car is pretty good dynamically it just needs a better engine and a 5-speed auto to be back at the top.

One of the things Suby hasn't done very well in the last few years is innovate as well as it did from 2002-2004. Since then, it has pushed its vehicles to the mainstream and hasn't pushed its performance technology to the next level. Then again, part of innovation is knowing the customer that you're going after and developing technologies that they will want to purchase...as such, perhaps Suby is innovating for its target market. Is its target market correct? Not sure, perhaps in a broader sense of making money but perhaps not in terms of the brand image that its cultivated from 2002 to 2004. So maybe my first sentence in this paragraph is wrong...maybe I am not seeing innovation because I am no longer in the key market that Suby is targetting.

VRT MBasile

iTrader: (17)

This, once again, seems like the "They aren't doing anything for me, therefore they aren't doing anything good" theory. They said in 07 that the 08 models were going to be more for the mainstream. It's a bigger market and there is more money there. Why would you NOT go that route as a manufacturer?

BoOm

iTrader: (4)

Xevious, yes, I've read into the PZEV rating that Subaru has for their vehicles before. The problem I have with their PZEV rating is that it's just engine tuning with catalytic converter changes. PZEV is also not a Subaru thing, it's a 50-state emissions bar thing. At best, the PZEV Forester nets one more MPG than regular. You can buy a VW Jetta with PZEV, a Mercedes Benz E-Class with PZEV, etc. It's not an engine technology, just an emissions standard.

The problem I have isn't with emissions rating like PZEV solves. It's that Subaru has been sitting on their EJ2X for more than 2 DECADES!(1989!). Last I hear, Subaru has no plans for the D4-S Boxer as Toyota most likely will keep that technology for themselves for now. Mitsubitshi ditched their 4G63 for a 4B11. If Hyundai can crank new engines with great amount of power for good economy, Subaru should be able too.

Max Xevious

iTrader: (8)

another point, Subaru actually posted increased sales where as everyone else was down for the year

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2010...s-record-year/

bpang1

iTrader: (25)

See my final paragraph...revised it when I thought some more on my training on innovation.

Also, sometimes it is not wise to go after a market if your brand identity doesn't match with it. Subaru risks alienating its core-customers by moving its products away from the core-competencies that these customers value. But you know what, its their company and the great thing about the automotive market is that there is variety and other manufacturers that are willing to go after the customers that Subaru is leaving.

Krang

iTrader: (14)

They need to take an EZ30 and a 6speed manual, make it boostable, drop it in something with a stiff chassis and put X Subaru shell on it. Simple, quick, and cost effective way to bring the STi's back in line with their current pricing.

Problem is, when nobody has money everyone works on making things cheaper, resulting in stagnation. It's not just subarus problem, it's everyones.

BoOm

iTrader: (4)

I firmly believe Subaru still injects much of their advertisement dollars into their performance image, as seen by the Subaru commercials during the Travis Pastrana jump. If they are two-facing it, then so be it, but don't pretend to be a performance car company like they have in the past and present a stale product that other companies are passing them in. Just the other day, I saw the Adrenaline Subaru commercial(showing Pastrana, Block, etc in rallying) that first aired more than a year ago.

Subaru can push for change and continue in the motorsports market. It's doable. Nissan has done it for their cars(Jump into support of VQ35/37 and the replacement of the RB26DETT). Audi and BMW has done it.

This is reminiscent of the 5MT-glass transmission debate all the way from 02. If Subaru advertises their car to be a performance car, then they really need to support that crowd and provide a beefier transmission that actually holds the power from the stock engine.

BoOm

iTrader: (4)

Subaru has been doing well the past two years, but they are just banking on the residual image of "performance and practicality" and a combination of the down market which resulted people who wanted to spend less. I even know of a person over in the NE whom I recommended a Forester to who originally wanted an Audi Quattro wagon but lost a good share of his money in the economic downturn. I'm almost sure that there are much less STI's and WRX's sold the past 2 years compared to before.

The problem is, with the market bouncing back and prosperity on many more people's hands, they will actually ditch the Subaru on their next purchase and do get that Audi Quattro wagon.