mobil 1?
04-05-2004, 10:48 AM
#46
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Originally posted by Judas
Hey, guys...Just thought I should mention that Mobil1 is no longer a pure synthetic.
Hey, guys...Just thought I should mention that Mobil1 is no longer a pure synthetic.
I had to read through all of that BS only to find you beat me to it.
:banana:
Mobil 1 is not a true synthetic anymore, because of the competition using the term "synthetic" for anything that has been touched by man. Basically, companies like Esso, or Quaker State were calling their synthetic blend "synthetic". Mobil 1 took them to court, and the courts sided with the other companies and allowed them to continue selling their product as "synthetic". Mobil 1 saw that they could never compete, and started selling a synthetic blend, as opposed to a true synthetic.
Great oil though.
It's cheap at WalMart, and has never let me down. I use it exclusively on my WRX, and my stupidly powerful blown integra.
04-05-2004, 10:50 AM
#47
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Originally posted by hypa
ahahahha!
I had to read through all of that BS only to find you beat me to it.
:banana:
Mobil 1 is not a true synthetic anymore, because of the competition using the term "synthetic" for anything that has been touched by man. Basically, companies like Esso, or Quaker State were calling their synthetic blend "synthetic". Mobil 1 took them to court, and the courts sided with the other companies and allowed them to continue selling their product as "synthetic". Mobil 1 saw that they could never compete, and started selling a synthetic blend, as opposed to a true synthetic.
Great oil though.
It's cheap at WalMart, and has never let me down. I use it exclusively on my WRX, and my stupidly powerful blown integra.
ahahahha!
I had to read through all of that BS only to find you beat me to it.
:banana:
Mobil 1 is not a true synthetic anymore, because of the competition using the term "synthetic" for anything that has been touched by man. Basically, companies like Esso, or Quaker State were calling their synthetic blend "synthetic". Mobil 1 took them to court, and the courts sided with the other companies and allowed them to continue selling their product as "synthetic". Mobil 1 saw that they could never compete, and started selling a synthetic blend, as opposed to a true synthetic.
Great oil though.
It's cheap at WalMart, and has never let me down. I use it exclusively on my WRX, and my stupidly powerful blown integra.
Originally posted by BAN SUVS
Got a link?
Got a link?
04-05-2004, 11:16 AM
#48
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04-05-2004, 11:20 AM
#49
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Uh, no. I'd like to see some non-biased, non-AMSOIL-derived piece of marketing for real information. If Mobil1 is no longer fully synthetic, there should be a press release from Mobil or an info page on their site. I'm really tired of amsoil's guerrilla marketing using independent vendors.
04-05-2004, 05:01 PM
#50
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You know what?
Since you spend so much time on the internet that you've forgotten how the social world works, you can look it up yourself. I know what the truth is, regardless of whether it was on an Amsoil site or not.
I'm not here to educate, nor impress you, and frankly, I'm sick of how you spew your negative views in every thread from the EJ20 forum to Off-topic. Go outside, get some air, admit that you're a dick, then come back and try again.
next.
Since you spend so much time on the internet that you've forgotten how the social world works, you can look it up yourself. I know what the truth is, regardless of whether it was on an Amsoil site or not.
I'm not here to educate, nor impress you, and frankly, I'm sick of how you spew your negative views in every thread from the EJ20 forum to Off-topic. Go outside, get some air, admit that you're a dick, then come back and try again.
next.
04-05-2004, 05:05 PM
#51
Angry Dan
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Originally posted by wrx10404
My time is worth the money. Only charge 19.99 and they check all fluids. It may only take 20 minutes but by the time i change my clothes and then change them again after i'm done its 35 to 40 mins. I also have to go to a store and buy oil and filters. I can pull into my dealer and be out in less than an hour and not even get dirty. I just wanetd to know if mobil one is better or not.
My time is worth the money. Only charge 19.99 and they check all fluids. It may only take 20 minutes but by the time i change my clothes and then change them again after i'm done its 35 to 40 mins. I also have to go to a store and buy oil and filters. I can pull into my dealer and be out in less than an hour and not even get dirty. I just wanetd to know if mobil one is better or not.
I change my oil myself. I use the time to bond with the car and look for things that could go wrong, gives me peace of mind.
04-05-2004, 05:31 PM
#52
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Originally posted by hypa
You know what?
Since you spend so much time on the internet that you've forgotten how the social world works, you can look it up yourself. I know what the truth is, regardless of whether it was on an Amsoil site or not.
I'm not here to educate, nor impress you, and frankly, I'm sick of how you spew your negative views in every thread from the EJ20 forum to Off-topic. Go outside, get some air, admit that you're a dick, then come back and try again.
next.
You know what?
Since you spend so much time on the internet that you've forgotten how the social world works, you can look it up yourself. I know what the truth is, regardless of whether it was on an Amsoil site or not.
I'm not here to educate, nor impress you, and frankly, I'm sick of how you spew your negative views in every thread from the EJ20 forum to Off-topic. Go outside, get some air, admit that you're a dick, then come back and try again.
next.
Funny how this was a dead thread bumped by someone with only a handful of posts, who did nothing more than smacktalk Mobil 1 and post a link to an amsoil distributor. Asking for proof of a damaging claim is not being an *******.
P.S.- THIS IS THE INTERNET. If you aren't here to educate or impress me, why bother posting at all? By the way, good job with that link. It did a great job of pointing out how Castrol is a synthetic blend (known for years) but says nothing about Mobil 1's product.
04-06-2004, 12:16 AM
#53
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The following links lead to Amsoil marketing sites:
http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/
http://www.1st-in-synthetics.com/
Everything on Amsoil's numerous web sites is marketing. None of it is unbiased. When they compare their oil to other oils, they will cite only areas where their product outperforms the competition. Nothing wrong with that if the reader takes it with a grain of salt. All of the synthetic oil manufacturers make much the same claims.
I found no information leading me to believe that Mobil 1 engine oil is no longer a synthetic.
--
0==WW==0
"…axles of evil…" - george w. bush
http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/
http://www.1st-in-synthetics.com/
Everything on Amsoil's numerous web sites is marketing. None of it is unbiased. When they compare their oil to other oils, they will cite only areas where their product outperforms the competition. Nothing wrong with that if the reader takes it with a grain of salt. All of the synthetic oil manufacturers make much the same claims.
I found no information leading me to believe that Mobil 1 engine oil is no longer a synthetic.
--
0==WW==0
"…axles of evil…" - george w. bush
04-06-2004, 02:53 AM
#54
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Originally posted by BAN SUVS
1. I don't even post in off topic.
2. And as always, the Cult Of Amsoil has failed to produce independent verification of its claims.
3. P.S.- THIS IS THE INTERNET. If you aren't here to educate or impress me, why bother posting at all?
1. I don't even post in off topic.
2. And as always, the Cult Of Amsoil has failed to produce independent verification of its claims.
3. P.S.- THIS IS THE INTERNET. If you aren't here to educate or impress me, why bother posting at all?
2. thanks for the clarification that amsoil is not the "only" oil
out there(contrary to what some people i know)
3. if i impress you will u share some scooby snacks
(i know i'm beating a dead cow here...
)I love royal purple- i swear by it. thats what i put in my mustang
thats what i'll put in my subarus. i don't care what anyone says
because i like it. and besides i don't know why we have to get so technical when it comes to motor oil. its not like were in nascar or WRC and getting paid millions to drive 80,000 dollar racing machines. danger dan put it best-
"I change my oil myself. I use the time to bond with the car and look for things that could go wrong, gives me peace of mind."
04-06-2004, 09:13 AM
#55
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 23
Car Info: 02 wrx wagon
Like I said above, I'm not here to "educate".
All I can say is that the shop I was working at exclusively used Mobil 1, and it was the rep himself who made it clear to us what was happening in the Mobil 1 camp.
I don't give a rat's *** if no one believes me.
And as gdogg so eloquently put it "I change my oil myself. I use the time to bond with the car and look for things that could go wrong, gives me peace of mind."
keep the rubber side down, and if your fingernails are clean, you haven't been working hard enough.
All I can say is that the shop I was working at exclusively used Mobil 1, and it was the rep himself who made it clear to us what was happening in the Mobil 1 camp.
I don't give a rat's *** if no one believes me.
And as gdogg so eloquently put it "I change my oil myself. I use the time to bond with the car and look for things that could go wrong, gives me peace of mind."
keep the rubber side down, and if your fingernails are clean, you haven't been working hard enough.
04-07-2004, 04:34 AM
#56
Originally posted by BAN SUVS
Uh, no. I'd like to see some non-biased, non-AMSOIL-derived piece of marketing for real information. If Mobil1 is no longer fully synthetic, there should be a press release from Mobil or an info page on their site. I'm really tired of amsoil's guerrilla marketing using independent vendors.
Uh, no. I'd like to see some non-biased, non-AMSOIL-derived piece of marketing for real information. If Mobil1 is no longer fully synthetic, there should be a press release from Mobil or an info page on their site. I'm really tired of amsoil's guerrilla marketing using independent vendors.
Over on the oil forum there are several people who've been submitting WRX oils for analysis and the consensus seems to be that our engines are holding up very well no matter which oil you use with them...
Here's an interesting quote from the thread I provided a link to:
I don't necessarily think it's a step back. We're not just talking about the base oils. Mobil 1 SuperSyn is on the cutting edge of additive technology, too. The zinc and phos are already down to GF-4 levels, and you've got moly and boron and over base calcium. With this oil, you've essentially got a four-pronged approach to EP/AW: ZDDP, moly, boron, and calcium. The additive package used here isn't cheap by any means, and while Mobil may be saving some money by eliminating the base oil esters, I'd bet the total difference in cost to produce SuperSyn over Tri-Syn is not a lot—maybe on the order of a few cents per quart. But when you're talking about the millions of gallons of this stuff produced anually, those few cents can add up, and that's all the bean counters are interested in.
Amsoil may still be using esters in the base oil blend, but the way they build their oils is still "yesterday's news," utilizing a basic two-pronged approach to EP/AW. Since they are not concerned with having to meet the API mandated reduction in phos, they can continue to build their oils with tons of ZDDP to attain acceptable EP/AW numbers. Mobil doesn't have this luxury, hence their approach to EP/AW is more "advanced" than Amsoil's. And the UOAs we are seeing seem to indicate that Mobil's formulation can hold its own against Amsoil's.
Amsoil may still be using esters in the base oil blend, but the way they build their oils is still "yesterday's news," utilizing a basic two-pronged approach to EP/AW. Since they are not concerned with having to meet the API mandated reduction in phos, they can continue to build their oils with tons of ZDDP to attain acceptable EP/AW numbers. Mobil doesn't have this luxury, hence their approach to EP/AW is more "advanced" than Amsoil's. And the UOAs we are seeing seem to indicate that Mobil's formulation can hold its own against Amsoil's.
04-14-2004, 04:11 PM
#59
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Okay, the important thing about any oil is it is made up of two main parts, the additive and the basestock. You will need a balanced approach from both in order to get the best oil. Simply saying it is synthetic or not is in a way meaningless!
As far as "PURE" synthetic, if you define it as being only synthesized from olefin stock (and even exclude esters as Amsoil does), then I believe Amsoil may have the only "PURE" synthetic. BUT, its common knowledge in the oil business that esters (and all their variations) can potentially be far superior to polyalphaolefins (PAO). Also, many testing has shown that very high processing (high levels of hydroprocessing) of crude oils can produce VERY high quality oils (commonly referred to in the industry as Group III), which the courts have allowed to be considred "synthetic" do to the level of chemical processing. Since I don't work for Mobil, I don't know for sure, but I would venture to say that TRI-Synthetic may potentially mean PAO, ESTERS, and Group III synthetics blended together. Your typical blended synthetic oils probably add some Group II (is hydrocracked but to only a lesser degree) or maybe even some basic Group I.
BUT, the important thing to note is the additives that is added into the oil! It's not as obvious to your regular consumer as the basestock used, but it plays potentially a much larger role! Your anti-wear additives, detergent, dispersants, ... etc are crucial to both the drain interval of the oil, as well as its performance over that time.
As a rule of thumb, because of higher sales price of synthetic oils, it will naturally have more additives! Same logic some old gasoline companies used to have; high octane = more/better detergents, low octane = less/cheaper detergents. You are forced to buy an excessive performing octane just to get the required detergent package. Likewise, the "basic" oils have the minimum additives while the "premium" oils have boosted levels (sometimes even better additives). BUT, don't forget the cost of a bottle of oil does not equal the cost of the products put in! People like Amsoil (and any of the specialy blenders) do NOT have economies of scale, efficient distribution (hence the high shipping/handing costs), nor leverage with suppliers, so therefore, for the exact same quality oil they produce, they will inevitably have to charge more.
As far as "PURE" synthetic, if you define it as being only synthesized from olefin stock (and even exclude esters as Amsoil does), then I believe Amsoil may have the only "PURE" synthetic. BUT, its common knowledge in the oil business that esters (and all their variations) can potentially be far superior to polyalphaolefins (PAO). Also, many testing has shown that very high processing (high levels of hydroprocessing) of crude oils can produce VERY high quality oils (commonly referred to in the industry as Group III), which the courts have allowed to be considred "synthetic" do to the level of chemical processing. Since I don't work for Mobil, I don't know for sure, but I would venture to say that TRI-Synthetic may potentially mean PAO, ESTERS, and Group III synthetics blended together. Your typical blended synthetic oils probably add some Group II (is hydrocracked but to only a lesser degree) or maybe even some basic Group I.
BUT, the important thing to note is the additives that is added into the oil! It's not as obvious to your regular consumer as the basestock used, but it plays potentially a much larger role! Your anti-wear additives, detergent, dispersants, ... etc are crucial to both the drain interval of the oil, as well as its performance over that time.
As a rule of thumb, because of higher sales price of synthetic oils, it will naturally have more additives! Same logic some old gasoline companies used to have; high octane = more/better detergents, low octane = less/cheaper detergents. You are forced to buy an excessive performing octane just to get the required detergent package. Likewise, the "basic" oils have the minimum additives while the "premium" oils have boosted levels (sometimes even better additives). BUT, don't forget the cost of a bottle of oil does not equal the cost of the products put in! People like Amsoil (and any of the specialy blenders) do NOT have economies of scale, efficient distribution (hence the high shipping/handing costs), nor leverage with suppliers, so therefore, for the exact same quality oil they produce, they will inevitably have to charge more.
04-14-2004, 04:14 PM
#60
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Posts: n/a
Originally posted by jimr
In my old race motor, I would sometimes see cam-lobe to follower wear running Kendall Gt1 or Valvoline (after the zinc package was pulled in the early 1990's), after changing to Mobil 1, absolutely no abnormal (or almost detectable wear), despite an increase in spring pressure.
In my old race motor, I would sometimes see cam-lobe to follower wear running Kendall Gt1 or Valvoline (after the zinc package was pulled in the early 1990's), after changing to Mobil 1, absolutely no abnormal (or almost detectable wear), despite an increase in spring pressure.
What Valvoline product did you use from the early 90's? Did you use the VR1 or just the All-Climate? Also, what oil weight did you use, and what kind of race motor did you have?
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