Question's for the experienced STI owners (Evo or STi purchase)
06-10-2006, 04:52 PM
#1
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: modesto, CA
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Car Info: 20th AE GTI
Question's for the experienced STI owners.
I have learned by reading threads on this forum that the engine block does not have forged internals. I am considering purchasing an 06' STI and there are two things I am concerned about. Maybe some of the experienced tuners can help me out.
1. I know this question is relative to how I drive the car but, in general, what is the most horsepower I can run on the stock block without it coming apart. Can I use APR studs to hold the crank down or is it a piston, rod, issue that will limit strength.
2. With a turbo upgrade I will need tuning. Is there a program which I can buy and use on my laptop to record and edit STFT and LTFT, Knock, spark advance tables, fuel injector frequency and injector cycle, Power enrichment tables, and so on. I use an LM-1 for AFR and have an RPM converter which I use to compare RPM, TPS, and AFR together. If they don't have this program available what do I use? HP Tuners and LS1 Edit are programs I am familiar with and would like to keep the GUI as close as possible.
Last question
3. How reliable are these cars compared to the MR Evolution. I would like to have 2.5L instead of the 2.0L but reliability is an important issue. Transmission, drivetrain, interior quality?
Whew!! I hope someone can answer these questions. I am new to Subaru cars and have always built Camaro's in the past. If anyone has a question regarding the LS1 powered Camaro's or Corvette's I would be happy to help, although this is a Subaru forum.
1. I know this question is relative to how I drive the car but, in general, what is the most horsepower I can run on the stock block without it coming apart. Can I use APR studs to hold the crank down or is it a piston, rod, issue that will limit strength.
2. With a turbo upgrade I will need tuning. Is there a program which I can buy and use on my laptop to record and edit STFT and LTFT, Knock, spark advance tables, fuel injector frequency and injector cycle, Power enrichment tables, and so on. I use an LM-1 for AFR and have an RPM converter which I use to compare RPM, TPS, and AFR together. If they don't have this program available what do I use? HP Tuners and LS1 Edit are programs I am familiar with and would like to keep the GUI as close as possible.
Last question
3. How reliable are these cars compared to the MR Evolution. I would like to have 2.5L instead of the 2.0L but reliability is an important issue. Transmission, drivetrain, interior quality?
Whew!! I hope someone can answer these questions. I am new to Subaru cars and have always built Camaro's in the past. If anyone has a question regarding the LS1 powered Camaro's or Corvette's I would be happy to help, although this is a Subaru forum.
06-10-2006, 07:32 PM
#2
welcome.. hopefully by using the search option you can find out a whole lot of info. on some of your concerns .. if you searched and still didnt find your answer to a specific question then everyone will be more than happy to help ya out ...
06-10-2006, 09:48 PM
#3
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Location: modesto, CA
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Car Info: 20th AE GTI
I hope if someone possesses the knowledge to address some of my questions they will put forth the information. And to hopefully quell some of the "search preachers" which seem present in all forums these days, I did search and could not find the information. So if anyone has experience with the topics I have touched on, enlighten me, rather than prove your the "search king" and tell me how you found all of my information in record time using the search feature of this forum. Thank you.
06-10-2006, 10:16 PM
#4
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Originally Posted by gatekeeper
I hope if someone possesses the knowledge to address some of my questions they will put forth the information. And to hopefully quell some of the "search preachers" which seem present in all forums these days, I did search and could not find the information. So if anyone has experience with the topics I have touched on, enlighten me, rather than prove your the "search king" and tell me how you found all of my information in record time using the search feature of this forum. Thank you.
I sell both EVO and STI's. Judging based on reliability and build quality... I do not hesitate to say Subaru. You figure... 286 hp from a 2 liter engine or 300 hp from a 2.5 liter motor. Which do you think has a bigger 'margin of safety'. Mitsubishi is getting by and may get back on it's feet... meanwhile Subaru just keeps getting stronger and stronger. Finally, do you want a push button mystery to your center dif ~ or precise settings you can see on the instrument cluster?
Now, which car would I buy, driving both every day ~ haven't an f'n clue!
06-10-2006, 10:50 PM
#5
Thats just it .. people who drive them both on a daily basis STILL dont know what to buy..
certainly what ever you decide on buying will be that... your own decission.. we can write tons of pros and cons on each vehicle in question... but nothing will compare to your own conclusion.
Good Luck..
Ps: I have had both and still love them both .. because there is nothing out there within the same price range that will perform/outperform either one.. and have 4 doors and a usable trunk to boot!!!!
you take for instance.. the evolution (Mitubishi) . for a 2.0L (Which they wanted to stay within the same guidelines as the WRC vehicle) this thing keeps on evolving. Especially with the addition of the Mivec system. it can handle upgrades as easily as You can say Pancakes. more WHP stock than the STi. surely enough the STi has Brute force to be able to surpass this obsticle but this is beacuse it is a half litre more than the evolution.
On the other hand the STi comeswith its 2.5L engine which yes it does have bigger displacemen than the evolution which we all know what that translates to. in the transmission department the Subaru(STi) is clearly our winner. due to many evolution owners having to have their transmissions replaced or repaired. (check with evolutionm.net for a full report on people and their tranny's)
AWD system: the evolution's awd system is a full time 50/50 split with ACD aka Active Center Differential with 3 settings ( Snow/Gravel/Tarmac) which correct me if i am wrong, is a system that with the help of computers tells it how soon to react when the vehecle/wheels start to slip.
now with respect to the STi's (awd) system comes the DCCD aka Driver Controlled Center Differential which as NW OBS stated has different settings to change the percentage of power to to rear wheels something the evolution doesnt have. Also new for 2006 I believe comes the enhanced version on the DCCD by way of a new sensor that calculates the Yaw control by means of the sterring wheel for a more precise turn.
Of course all this has been talked about but I am sure I have left out tons of things. this is just a generalized overview of both cars. Again I am sure there will be other members within time that might be able to give you a better understanding on the 2 vehicles and how they work.
Keep in mind that this is a Subaru board..
certainly what ever you decide on buying will be that... your own decission.. we can write tons of pros and cons on each vehicle in question... but nothing will compare to your own conclusion.
Good Luck..
Ps: I have had both and still love them both .. because there is nothing out there within the same price range that will perform/outperform either one.. and have 4 doors and a usable trunk to boot!!!!
you take for instance.. the evolution (Mitubishi) . for a 2.0L (Which they wanted to stay within the same guidelines as the WRC vehicle) this thing keeps on evolving. Especially with the addition of the Mivec system. it can handle upgrades as easily as You can say Pancakes. more WHP stock than the STi. surely enough the STi has Brute force to be able to surpass this obsticle but this is beacuse it is a half litre more than the evolution.
On the other hand the STi comeswith its 2.5L engine which yes it does have bigger displacemen than the evolution which we all know what that translates to. in the transmission department the Subaru(STi) is clearly our winner. due to many evolution owners having to have their transmissions replaced or repaired. (check with evolutionm.net for a full report on people and their tranny's)
AWD system: the evolution's awd system is a full time 50/50 split with ACD aka Active Center Differential with 3 settings ( Snow/Gravel/Tarmac) which correct me if i am wrong, is a system that with the help of computers tells it how soon to react when the vehecle/wheels start to slip.
now with respect to the STi's (awd) system comes the DCCD aka Driver Controlled Center Differential which as NW OBS stated has different settings to change the percentage of power to to rear wheels something the evolution doesnt have. Also new for 2006 I believe comes the enhanced version on the DCCD by way of a new sensor that calculates the Yaw control by means of the sterring wheel for a more precise turn.
Of course all this has been talked about but I am sure I have left out tons of things. this is just a generalized overview of both cars. Again I am sure there will be other members within time that might be able to give you a better understanding on the 2 vehicles and how they work.
Keep in mind that this is a Subaru board..
Last edited by turbo_4_life; 06-10-2006 at 11:19 PM.
06-11-2006, 01:22 AM
#6
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: modesto, CA
Posts: 3
Car Info: 20th AE GTI
I went ahead and looked up transmission problems the Evo guys are having and it wasn't hard to find a few threads. Transmissions seem to be a weak area for the Evo. If that problem is common I would remove the Evo as an option. Something to be aware of for sure.
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=205743
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=202423
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=199119
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=204682
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=204094
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=205743
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=202423
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=199119
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=204682
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=204094
06-14-2006, 07:31 AM
#8
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 3
1. HP levels are in direct proportion to the experience and knowledge of your or you tuner's capabilities. A fairly safe margin for the 2.5 block is 360-400 to the wheels, with proper tuning. Over that is still comparatively safe, but longevity is still in question since the model is still so new on our shores. The curren limiting factor is mainly the ring/piston design and possibley that in conjunction with the horizontal layout, causing wash across the rings and detonation where you don't want it. After that, it is probably the pistons themselves deforming under duress.
2. I believe most piggyback and all stand alone EMS provide data logging capabilities these days. Cobb AP ST and UTEC are two of them. Utek requires a seperate purchase for datalogging I believe. Do a google search for datalogging and you'll see there are a number of applications that can be used with laptop to monitor your parameters.
3. To date, the Evo block and internals have a better rep for durability over the aluminum semi-closed deck and non-forged internals of the STi. However, hands down, the STi drivetrain from the clutch on back (or forward since it is AWD) has been proven to be much more robust. The clutch is good to around 350-400 AWHP, and the tranny is good to at least 500 AWHP. Shafts have been snapped from time to time, but his is usually associated with tire pressure and a sticky track when launching.
For longevity, I would choose the STi. For an out and out monster build, probably the Evo, but I would question the additional items I would have to consider on the Evo. Long term, the wear items on the Evo would likely show a greater cost than for the same build on an STi. Shredded clutches/toasted flywheels/broke gears...not really common on the Evo, but it does happen. For the STi, I can count on one hand the number of broke trannies/toasted clutches I've heard about, and these have all been cases of incorrect driving or just out and out brute force HP to high for the stock units.
2. I believe most piggyback and all stand alone EMS provide data logging capabilities these days. Cobb AP ST and UTEC are two of them. Utek requires a seperate purchase for datalogging I believe. Do a google search for datalogging and you'll see there are a number of applications that can be used with laptop to monitor your parameters.
3. To date, the Evo block and internals have a better rep for durability over the aluminum semi-closed deck and non-forged internals of the STi. However, hands down, the STi drivetrain from the clutch on back (or forward since it is AWD) has been proven to be much more robust. The clutch is good to around 350-400 AWHP, and the tranny is good to at least 500 AWHP. Shafts have been snapped from time to time, but his is usually associated with tire pressure and a sticky track when launching.
For longevity, I would choose the STi. For an out and out monster build, probably the Evo, but I would question the additional items I would have to consider on the Evo. Long term, the wear items on the Evo would likely show a greater cost than for the same build on an STi. Shredded clutches/toasted flywheels/broke gears...not really common on the Evo, but it does happen. For the STi, I can count on one hand the number of broke trannies/toasted clutches I've heard about, and these have all been cases of incorrect driving or just out and out brute force HP to high for the stock units.
Last edited by YBNormal07; 06-14-2006 at 07:33 AM.
06-17-2006, 11:45 PM
#9
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 871
Originally Posted by gatekeeper
I hope if someone possesses the knowledge to address some of my questions they will put forth the information. And to hopefully quell some of the "search preachers" which seem present in all forums these days, I did search and could not find the information. So if anyone has experience with the topics I have touched on, enlighten me, rather than prove your the "search king" and tell me how you found all of my information in record time using the search feature of this forum. Thank you.
On the other hand, the STi has a much better reputation for reliability than the Evo. Initially, YES, the Evo WILL make more power on stock internals, but the rest of the drivetrain isn't up to the task. In my book, performance not only corrolates to how well a car will perform, but how reliable that car is. I'm not biased towards either the Evo or the STi, as I love both, but I chose to go with the STi and give up some of the "from-stock-performance-capabilities) for a more reliable ride. What good is owning/modding a car if all it's doing is sitting in a garage broken down?
And yeah, I hate that "Use the Search" crap too. If people are just going to tell someone to use the "Search," why bother posting?
But, granted, the Search option is your friend. I've used it on more than one occasion and have found the information I've searched for. Your questions are a bit more in depth than the typical "What will win, an Evo or an STi?" questions. That has to be the most common/stupidest question that I see on this site.
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