Mitsu's Response to STi's Numbers
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Originally posted by Janq
Ni3Frontier,
The RX-8 is actually pretty cool in concept and design.
Saying its "watered down at best" is a bit off-base considering the relative performance to the previous generations NA & Turbo models:
200 HP @ 6500 RPM & 196 lb/ft @ 3500 (NA '91 RX-7 @ 2,987 lbs)
255 HP @ 6500 RPM & 217 lb/ft @ 5000 (Turbo '93 RX-7 @ 2,789 lbs)
250 HP @ 8500 RPM & 159 lb/ft @ 5500 (NA '03 RX-8 6M @2,940 lbs)
As indicated above the RX-8 makes 98% of the '93 Turbo's (last model) horsepower though its down on torque by 19% as compared to the '91 NA (last NA model). The Turbo only made 25% more power than the NA so applying the same to the RX-8 might result in a yield of roughly 313 HP (!). For torque the Turbo also made about 11% more and again applying the same to the RX-8 might result in about 177 lb/ft. But keep in mind this is all coming from only 1.3L of displacement.
I'd say respectable for a 2+2 sport coupe (sedan?) at only $28K, and the good folks at Car & Driver (this months edition) seem to agree.
Overall the RX-8 is the better than any of the previous generation RX-7's. Oh, and since when is MotorTrend known a reliable or believeable source?
They are equivalent to Road & Track, the 'People' magazine of auto rags. Now if you had said AutoWeek or even Auotmobile then maybe I'd believe it.
- Janq
Ni3Frontier,
The RX-8 is actually pretty cool in concept and design.
Saying its "watered down at best" is a bit off-base considering the relative performance to the previous generations NA & Turbo models:
200 HP @ 6500 RPM & 196 lb/ft @ 3500 (NA '91 RX-7 @ 2,987 lbs)
255 HP @ 6500 RPM & 217 lb/ft @ 5000 (Turbo '93 RX-7 @ 2,789 lbs)
250 HP @ 8500 RPM & 159 lb/ft @ 5500 (NA '03 RX-8 6M @2,940 lbs)
As indicated above the RX-8 makes 98% of the '93 Turbo's (last model) horsepower though its down on torque by 19% as compared to the '91 NA (last NA model). The Turbo only made 25% more power than the NA so applying the same to the RX-8 might result in a yield of roughly 313 HP (!). For torque the Turbo also made about 11% more and again applying the same to the RX-8 might result in about 177 lb/ft. But keep in mind this is all coming from only 1.3L of displacement.
I'd say respectable for a 2+2 sport coupe (sedan?) at only $28K, and the good folks at Car & Driver (this months edition) seem to agree.
Overall the RX-8 is the better than any of the previous generation RX-7's. Oh, and since when is MotorTrend known a reliable or believeable source?
They are equivalent to Road & Track, the 'People' magazine of auto rags. Now if you had said AutoWeek or even Auotmobile then maybe I'd believe it.
- Janq
Your assessment of the RX-8 compared to previous generation RX-7s is right on and I do agree that it is impressive performance wise. However, I feel that if the RX-8 is the replacement for the RX-7 and nothing else is coming, that Mazda is losing focus on what the evolution of the RX-7 should be - a 2 door, 2 seater, rotary turbo. That is the reason for my "watered down" comment. I have a personal bias against the looks of the RX-8 as well; I dont think it carries the heritage of the RX-7 well. But it is all personal preference. You're right in that the RX-8 is a good buy for the performance, but personally if I had the money, I'd go for a Z
But to each his own. Thanks for the cool post!
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from what ive heard, the mitsubishi "extreme" rallart EVo will be the counter act against any subaru that comes out, it has 360bhp and a 0-60 in the range of 4.4 or less i believe......this should counter the type RA and S202 and send subaru back to the drawing boards to try and counter it again. hopefully they do, i love this competition
and by the way, the 2004 ralliart US lancer has about 165hp so it is not a competitor with the WRX or SRT4, its just against the spec V and SI and some others.
and by the way, the 2004 ralliart US lancer has about 165hp so it is not a competitor with the WRX or SRT4, its just against the spec V and SI and some others.
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Originally posted by ralliart
from what ive heard, the mitsubishi "extreme" rallart EVo will be the counter act against any subaru that comes out, it has 360bhp and a 0-60 in the range of 4.4 or less i believe......this should counter the type RA and S202 and send subaru back to the drawing boards to try and counter it again. hopefully they do, i love this competition
and by the way, the 2004 ralliart US lancer has about 165hp so it is not a competitor with the WRX or SRT4, its just against the spec V and SI and some others.
from what ive heard, the mitsubishi "extreme" rallart EVo will be the counter act against any subaru that comes out, it has 360bhp and a 0-60 in the range of 4.4 or less i believe......this should counter the type RA and S202 and send subaru back to the drawing boards to try and counter it again. hopefully they do, i love this competition
and by the way, the 2004 ralliart US lancer has about 165hp so it is not a competitor with the WRX or SRT4, its just against the spec V and SI and some others.
I agree with you that the RalliArt edition/version of the US EVo (with AYC & ADC + more HP/torque) will be fatser/quicker than the EVO.
I think folks are forgetting though is that the US EVO was actually intended to steal market share from the regular WRX by surpassing its offerings completely (which it does).
No one expected Subie to send the STi here. Subaru never let on it was going to do so until December, and by then it was too late for Mitsu to make any adjustments. Also, everyone just assumed that the US Sti would be based on the 2.0L STi or Spec C RA.
Subie outsmarted us on that one too with the 2.5L and claims they had been developing it all along 'secretly'. Ok, sure...
Ok, so Subie got the upper hand on Mitsu this time...but Mitsubishi lately is not one to sit on its a$$ and take lumps.
I'll bet a box of Krispy Kreme donuts that by next summer/fall either the RalliArt hi-po edition will hit US shores or they will allow current EVO's to be upfitted with factory (dealer distributed) go fast engine parts to increase US EVO power output above the Sti.
And I'll bet that it'll be available in stages with a decreasing amount of warranty coverage per 'power stage'.
Option number two works best for Mitsu as they then don't have tool up to build yet another 'niche' line of car. They just throw some parts in a box and ship it out to dealers for installation along the normal parts supply lines.
Delaers will love it as they'll make revenue against sales & installation (must be installed by a Mitsu dealer or the entire powertrain warranty is voided!), Mitsu loves it because they have a built in sales incentive program for the current EVO (and even regular Lancer!), and owners will love it becuase they can pick the level of power they want/need (regular/stock, fast, faster, fastest...) and maintain a factory warranty to boot.
Whats not to like?!
Just remember when it happens that you heard it here.
More manufacturers are going this route as it helps keep expenses low while boosting profit and market perception of performance.
BMW is doing it (Dinan) as well as Mini (Cooper 'Works' program), Toyota (Toyota Racing Development aka 'TRD'), to some degree Subaru (STi and Prodrive in world markets) not to mention domestics have been doing it for years with Chevy's (Bowtie & Chevy Power program), FoMoCo (Ford Performance, SVO and now SVT) and everyone knows about Dodge and their performance history.
Expect to see more of these types of program come down the pike as the months and years roll by...
The competition works for everyone.
There hasn't been a better time since the early '60's to be a performance car enthusiast!
- Janq
"What's old is new again." - Unknown
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