mbquarts

iTrader: (10)

Vishnu used to sell one as well. I'd be interested in hearing about people's experience with the Vishnu 321 solid uppipe b/c I have the Vishnu 304 flex uppipe.

misterx

Coating just the outside of the metal accomplishes very little in regard to rejection of heat. The idea is to maintian EGT and velocity. Not coating a header or uppipe on the inside is an exceptionally bad idea. Find a race application of coating and see how it's applied - inside and out. Always.

We have sold hundreds of uppipes and have yet to have a single return or complaint. The coating doesn't peel or flake and the pipes don't leak. Period. And if one were to fail, we'd stand behind it. The performance of the pipe in terms of spool up has been posted by dozens of people on various boards.

Draw your own conclusions about coating, but don't believe this pipe was designed other than an engineer. The simple fact is, it's not overengineered and serves its purpose admirably.

UK n00b

iTrader: (3)

Nobody is doubting the quality of your product or has said anything other than concerns of the internal coating based on knowledge of ceramic coatings failing over due course of time, this happens on certain ceramic coated applications whether it has or has not happened to date on one of your uppipes is not of issue.

I don't believe you wish to reject the heat more retain it within the piping to aid in the spoolup?

Mike

misterx

You want the metal to reject the heat, otherwise it radiates into the engine bay. And the coating isn't going to fail. We don't coat the pipes ouseleves. It's don in a father & son shop. there, they have a pipe that's been beat on with a hammer repeatedly. The coating doesn't crack or spall despite the beating. It's on the pipe and it's going to stay there.

ipozestu

iTrader: (18)

I work with ceramic coatings, which have been supplied, with much of my equipment. Dealing with extreme gas turbine exhaust gas temperatures of 1800 deg F. Our major means of detecting hot spots in our HRSG (heat recovery steam generator) is with a heat gun. We pan the outer surface of the casing and look for sudden spikes in temperature. Flaking and degradation of the internal ceramic coating cause these sudden spikes in temperature. When we lose coating it goes out the stack and cast to the wind. Your reputation is well known at Crucial. If you guys are willing to stand behind your product, and any repercussions that may be caused by the coatings on your parts, what more could you ask for. I'm certain that you are aware of selling points and sales pitches. Many companies use these to reel in customers for the next greatest thing. There are also very few markets where this is more prevalent than aftermarket tuning parts. I don't see very many companies chiming in to stand by their products. I thank you for that.

UK n00b

iTrader: (3)

I think we're talking about the same thing although Rejecting the heat is hardly the term. Unless my understanding of the pre turbo exhaust system is flawed you use coatings and wraps to "retain" the heat within the exhaust piping.

Mike

mbquarts

iTrader: (10)

I think what he was saying was...The coating helps the metal reject heat (lowers the amount of heat transfer) which retains heat inside the pipe. If the metal was absorbing the heat, the heat would transfer through the pipe and be lost to the surroundings. Heat transfer always occurs with higher temperatures moving to lower temperatures until they meet an equilibrium.

misterx

I work with huge combustion turbines too. I build 250 MW combined cycle, single shaft units and am intimately familiar with coatings used in the industry as the combustion temperatures in the turbines would destroy alloy blades without a ceramic coating. We had a particular problem with temperatures on th L1 and L2 blades in that regard.

The level of air filtration in a utility intake does not approach that of a modern automotive intake by any means. Utility turbines are far more subject to FOD than any autombile, unless the intake is unfiltered air.

You're well aware we're talking about two different technologies and two different applications. There is little to compare between an uppipe and a HRSG. What happens in a utility boler and an uppipe simply are not comparable by any stretch of the imagination. If you want to get techniacal about the subject, there is little to no ceramic coating on the tubing of most HRSGs. Almost all of the insulation used in modern commercial HRSGs is either plastic refractory material or, more commonly, fiberglass sandwich. The temperatures in the boiler simply are not high enough to warrant the cost of ceramic coating. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen ceramic used after the diffuser and only in rotating parts and stationary blades. I've never seen it on boiler tubes and I've been in the utility industry for more than twenty years. I've seen plenty of weld overlay, though.

Crucial's coating is not ceramic by the way. It's a cerametallic coating.

Mbquarts is correct.

ipozestu

iTrader: (18)

We do us ceramic on 1st and second stage stators in our gas turbines, the transition duct to our HRSG is coated with spray injected calcium silicate ( talk about insulation right), our generating bank forward of the SH section is completely coated inside and out with ceramic coating. We utilize a ductburner to meet demands of process steam and steam injection to the gas turbine. Ceramic coating on boiler tubes would be a little counter productive,LOL. There are differences of course when comparing industrial gas turbines, and automobile engines. My experiences with coatings to this date have all been good, but as sure as the sun will rise and set they aren't perfect. I do thank you for shedding some light on your process, materials and knowledge. I will take your product into serious consideration when my pipe fails.
Jeff