At least it isn't a Daewoo

 

They are selling plenty due to customer loyalty not just because they build great cars.I gurantee that ALOT of Toyota owners will buy a Toyota just because it's a Toyota. Alot of us would say the same about the Subarus we drive here on this forum. Why wouldn't a lot of people buy a performance car from Toyota?? Thats like saying people wouldn't buy a performance car from Honda or Nissan... It would be an insult to a Japanease car maker to be in the same class as a crappy 2nd rate Korean car. If Toyota was to be on the same level as KIA then they have more issues than I thought.

 

every other day? i put gas in my Audi every day

 

Thats why i wonder why they nixed the MR line. Its been with Toyota for generations. and its essentially a FWD that is flipped around as far as i know. Maybe not, but cmon, they just gave up all two seater customers to Mazda and Honda.

 

You obviously haven't been paying attention to the Korean cars the last few years. They're leaps and bounds beyond what they were.

They wouldn't buy one because it isn't Toyotas market. Toyota isn't the same company it was in the 80s and 90s. They've adapted. So has Subaru. Imagine how much effort Toyota will have to put in to change the perception (among non-enthusiasts, I'm speaking about general population). I agree that a lot of their sales are due to loyalty, but a lot aren't. Toyota constantly gets excellent marks in reliability, crash safety, etc. Hard to argue with that when you're looking for a car that will last 'forever'.

I like Subaru, but I'm not the guy that is going to pretend no other cars exist and only buy Subaru. I spent plenty of time not driving Subarus in the last 4yrs. The view on this forum is slightly skewed as it is an enthusiast forum. Man on the street isn't quite the same. Subaru has plenty of loyal customers beyond the WRX market. They still don't sell the number of cars Toyota does.

Customer retention average is 48.8% (these are '07 stats as '08 isn't over). Subaru is slightly above that at 51.2%. Guess who is #1 - that is correct - Toyota at 64.6%. Sort of proves your point about loyalty, but also means they have a large margin of new customers. Might suprise you, but Hyundai is at 50.9%. Above average.

Toyota can build and sell a handful of 'specialty market' cars or a million billion Camrys. Toyota seems to be doing what they want and it isn't hurting them.

FYI, Scion has a retention rate of only 30.8%.

 

I really do HATE Scions and I just laugh at them whenever I see one (no offense to any Scion owners) But I remember my friend just got a brand new TC over a RSX (Don't ask why). And when he first got it he was hella eager to show off how fast it is, (I had a Mercedes C230 pretty old car). Without even going THAT fast, I still beat him on highway 4. That was a pretty funny day. Now I see why Scions have a low retention rate, "fast" looking cars, but no "fast" in them.

 

The real reason is that they don't have anything for the buyer to move into. They make entry level cars and it stops there. Toyota doesn't have a product that would interest the Scion buyer and they move on. Sucks.

Scion had such promise.

 

From someone who has been supplying Toyota as an OEM manufacturer and have dealt with TMC (Toyota Motor Corp Japan) a number of times, the employees at TMC has in their mindset to be part of the top 3 auto manufacturers in the world. They wanted to do it the hard way, by developing the Toyota brand to outsell the others. You can't do this by catering to niche markets such as the performance crowd. Their resources were put in to mass market models like the Corolla (all time volume leader and Japan's no 1 car) and a Camry specific for North America.

 

There you go folks.

 

I'm not disputing that Toyota makes bad cars or they don't sell enough etc. I just happen to think they sold out when it comes to appealing to other demographics(performance enthusiasts especially). Thats why they created Scion to catch people Toyota wasn't grabbing the attention of. Like I said, Toyotas are bland and not inspirantional, there is no passion behind the design of the brand any longer. I agree Korean cars have come a long way but they are still Korean cars(I've driven every one to known man practically). I think of them as the low ball, cheap as it can get type. The KIA Amanti is trying to be a nice ride but the truth is the engineering really is poor when it comes to suspension and road feel in that car. The others are just all plain jane. Ever driven a KIA Optima? Worthless vehicle.