Suggestions for new computer setup
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Originally Posted by dahveed
FYI ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128mb is $199 at Fry's.
webpage www.mwave.com
cheap stuff and ships damn fast even on ground becuase of where they are located.
Frys is cool too but i've always had to watch the packages for faulty crap.
Last edited by RoadSpike; Aug 5, 2004 at 01:16 AM.
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I'm looking at Fry's prices on video cards (Outpost.com = Fry's), and they suck big time. I don't think you're going to find much anything better at Fry's for cheaper unelss you buy online or used.
Cards to avoid:
Geforce anything MX
Geforce anything SE (EXCEPT the 5900se)
Geforce anything XT (EXCEPT the 5900XT)
Geforce anything LE
Radeon anything SE
Sometimes I think the graphics card manufacturers are purposely confusing consumers or something, because for someone who doesn't know the graphics card market, you can sure end up spending a LOT for a poor card for your needs.
I'm going to list a bunch of cards from newegg that are significantly better than what you bought. The order will be in approximate order of performance. For similar cards in the list, the nVidia cards will generally be better at Doom3 and the ATi cards generally better at HL2:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...102-295&depa=1
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...240-014&depa=1
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...240-014&depa=1
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...131-242&depa=1
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...131-406&depa=1
These are suggestions that are priced closer to your ~$100 price point, where before the suggestions were more in the higher range, assuming you would be saving some money on the CPU end to allow for a little more leeway in the video card end of things. The 9800 non-pro is a big step up from the other cards. It will be something that should be able to last quite a while. The non-pro is almost exactly the same as the pro, but with lower clock speeds. In many cases these can be overclocked to be exactly the same as a 9800 Pro, but for less $$$
You can get other good values, but they're used. 9700 Pros were around $150, but you can't find them new anymore. Used they go for around $130. 5900XTs used are also good, and go for around $150 or less on eBay.
But these same cards at Fry's are like 50% more. I listed the 256MB 9600 because the 128MB and 256MB cards are the same price at newegg.
Having more memory is better, but the penalty is not huge for having less. It affects how much you have available for textures. In the case of Doom3, you have 512 MB = the textures are uncompressed (imagine an uncompressed BMP or TIFF image from a digital camera), 256MB equals a small amount of image compression (like a high quality .jpg image) 128 MB equals a medium compression (a mid quality .jpg) and 64 MB is high compression (a low quality .jpg). Keeping in mind that these images are mapped onto things moving around at a reasonable rate of speed, you have very little image quality loss going from 256 to 128 and virtually no speed difference.
If you are happy with the 5200, then that's fine. I didn't realize you had already bought it. If you can return it great, but if you have to mail order to get a replacement, that leaves you without a card for a couple days, and that pretty well sucks. I hate to see someone with a lesser card than they could have for the same money, so if you want to mail order something, you can borrow my 5900XT to fill in for the time between when you return from Fry's and you get whatever mail order card.
Cards to avoid:
Geforce anything MX
Geforce anything SE (EXCEPT the 5900se)
Geforce anything XT (EXCEPT the 5900XT)
Geforce anything LE
Radeon anything SE
Sometimes I think the graphics card manufacturers are purposely confusing consumers or something, because for someone who doesn't know the graphics card market, you can sure end up spending a LOT for a poor card for your needs.
I'm going to list a bunch of cards from newegg that are significantly better than what you bought. The order will be in approximate order of performance. For similar cards in the list, the nVidia cards will generally be better at Doom3 and the ATi cards generally better at HL2:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...102-295&depa=1
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...240-014&depa=1
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...240-014&depa=1
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...131-242&depa=1
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...131-406&depa=1
These are suggestions that are priced closer to your ~$100 price point, where before the suggestions were more in the higher range, assuming you would be saving some money on the CPU end to allow for a little more leeway in the video card end of things. The 9800 non-pro is a big step up from the other cards. It will be something that should be able to last quite a while. The non-pro is almost exactly the same as the pro, but with lower clock speeds. In many cases these can be overclocked to be exactly the same as a 9800 Pro, but for less $$$
You can get other good values, but they're used. 9700 Pros were around $150, but you can't find them new anymore. Used they go for around $130. 5900XTs used are also good, and go for around $150 or less on eBay.
But these same cards at Fry's are like 50% more. I listed the 256MB 9600 because the 128MB and 256MB cards are the same price at newegg.
Having more memory is better, but the penalty is not huge for having less. It affects how much you have available for textures. In the case of Doom3, you have 512 MB = the textures are uncompressed (imagine an uncompressed BMP or TIFF image from a digital camera), 256MB equals a small amount of image compression (like a high quality .jpg image) 128 MB equals a medium compression (a mid quality .jpg) and 64 MB is high compression (a low quality .jpg). Keeping in mind that these images are mapped onto things moving around at a reasonable rate of speed, you have very little image quality loss going from 256 to 128 and virtually no speed difference.
If you are happy with the 5200, then that's fine. I didn't realize you had already bought it. If you can return it great, but if you have to mail order to get a replacement, that leaves you without a card for a couple days, and that pretty well sucks. I hate to see someone with a lesser card than they could have for the same money, so if you want to mail order something, you can borrow my 5900XT to fill in for the time between when you return from Fry's and you get whatever mail order card.
Last edited by Concillian; Aug 5, 2004 at 11:30 AM.
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Originally Posted by dan avoN7
you don't have to but its the truth
The 256 meg 9800 Pro is not really much faster than a 128 meg 9800 Pro, A GeForce 6800 however, is significantly faster than both, and at newegg right now the difference in price between a GF 6800 and a 256 meg 9800 pro is a whopping $20.
I'm wondering where you're getting that the 128 meg version is 'garbage'
Here is an example of benchmarks that show no real difference. Halo is a pretty graphically intensive game:
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/gra...charts-09.html
128 meg: 55.17
256 meg: 55.17
Umm, so why is the 128 meg version garbage?
Given the choice of spending $200 or $265 for essentially the same performance, I'm gonna have to go with spending $200.
Also check out the Anandtech Doom 3 benchmarks I linked to above, the 9800XT (basically an overclocked 256meg 9800 Pro) gets totally owned by the GeForce 6800...
Ultra Quality @ 1024x768:
GF 6800: 67.4 FPS
9800XT: 40.9 FPS
Last edited by Concillian; Aug 5, 2004 at 02:17 PM.
Originally Posted by jdepould
Look at alienware: http://www.alienware.com a bit expensive, but you won't find a better windows machine anywhere.
If you have the money, get the 939-socket AMD 64bit processor, BUT BEWARE, I hear a rumor about 6.7-10 ghz p4's running on the Prescott platform are coming out soon
But if your going for the P4, do the 2.8ghz and get a GOOD heatsink, I would recommened the AeroCool4 by Cooler Master or for the big bucks, go for the Zalman Pure Copper CPU cooler. With that, you could be an overclocking monster. On newegg.com they have some good 512 DDR400 RAM deals for around $83, I picked up a few of those and they work great, not a defective one in the bunch. Now about the mobo, I would go for a DFI LanParty Pro875B if possible, but if not, just go for a Gigabyte, Asus, or even a Foxconn. Gl!Edit: Oh yea, beware of Fry's, they have the power to sell returned products. Its a mad house in there.
Nuts, I'm late on it.
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I went to Frys today and the prices are all very expensive for the cards that were suggested, well over 200 dollars. I was looking to spend about $150 and I'm currently trolling and bidding on video cards on ebay so we'll see how that goes. Fry's doesn't have a good selection in their Portage road store, and the cards are arranged so as to confuse the customer (me!) so I'll probably wait until I can buy one on the internet and then just outright return the other video card.
Why do these f'n computers have to be so expensive...
Why do these f'n computers have to be so expensive...
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the 256mb 9600 ATI card from newegg is very tempting at forty bucks less than the card i bought...will be returning the card as soon as the new one gets in 
and these card manufacturers sure now how to rip you off...they put out so many products that they flood the market and make decision making difficult unless you do a ton of research. that's lame oh well

and these card manufacturers sure now how to rip you off...they put out so many products that they flood the market and make decision making difficult unless you do a ton of research. that's lame oh well
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Nvidia has gone down the tubes lately. (sorry if this is a repost of anything, too lazy to read through everything). But ATI has kicked Nvidia's butt. Go to www.pricewatch.com for some good prices too.
Dahveed aka Robin Hood
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I turned my old work computer into a mini-gamer:
Compaq mini-tower case
Intel Pentium III 1ghz
Intel 815E MB
512MB PC133 SDRAM
350W Power Supply
Maxtor 120GB/8MB Cache ATA/133 HD
CD Rom
Sony DRU-500A DVD burner
SB Audigy 2ZS Sound card
ATI 9800 Pro 128mb/256bit Video card
Logitech Z680 5.1 Sound System
For the money, it plays games well enough for me, and I still enjoy messing with it.
David
Compaq mini-tower case
Intel Pentium III 1ghz
Intel 815E MB
512MB PC133 SDRAM
350W Power Supply
Maxtor 120GB/8MB Cache ATA/133 HD
CD Rom
Sony DRU-500A DVD burner
SB Audigy 2ZS Sound card
ATI 9800 Pro 128mb/256bit Video card
Logitech Z680 5.1 Sound System
For the money, it plays games well enough for me, and I still enjoy messing with it.
David
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