This why subies are awesome. Just change the shoes and its a whole different purpose car.

You just need "off road shoes" and maybe "snow shoes".

 

Is that why Subaru owners are wheel ******?

 

I don't have a lot of input on 070 vs 11, but my Z1s have a serious issue with communicating the limit. They stick well, but they don't give you much warning when they're gonna let go... like none. IMO this makes them a very bad street tire. Good at Autox, good grip wet or dry, but on the street you want a tire to talk to you a little better.

Supposedly the Z2 is better at that.

Wet is very good, and they are not comfort tires (but that shouldn't surprise anyone.)

I wish I could have more input, but I don't change wheels and tires with my mood like many people around here seem to.

 

I've been on a few sets of Z1s. I don't change out my wheels and tires, so I autox and dd my Z1s. They're really good tires in the dry that also offer good wet traction. From talking to a lot of serious and skilled autox drivers, that also track their cars a few times a year, here's what I've learned:

The RS3 is a stickier tire than the Z1, but only after you get enough heat into them. The Z1 has good grip when they're cold and have better wet traction in the rain when compared to the RS3. When cold the RS3 can be a little slippery. It's easier to overheat the Z1 at the track compared to the RS3. I only know one person from autox who had the RE-11. the tire has a lot of dry grip but once they reach their limit they just let go, more so than the Z1. The replacement for the Z1, the ZII, is a far better tire than the Z1 in the dry. I don't know about how well the ZII is in the rain since there hasn't much of it since the new tire came out. Another possibility is the new BFG Rivals. From testing I've seen from some well known autox drivers, the Rivals looks like better tires for track use than the Z11 and are at least as good as, or possibly even better than, the ZII in autox.

You probably won't be disappointed with any of these tires you end up choosing.

 

^^+1

At this level of grip, they're so close that I just go by whatever is cheapest.

 

The BFG Rivals will likely be king of the dry, but they are not really designed to do well in the wet, which means they're not going to be very good street tires. These are aimed at being a specialty autox tire, which it will probably do very well.

Autox is very important now. More so than most track style racing like USTCC and such.

What works at autox gets word of mouth and people buy them for the street (whether they're actually good for the street or not.) My feeling is that most of what is great for autox is generally mediocre at best on the street. I value wet performance and progressive breakaway more than ultimate grip on the street.

 

How do you know the Rivals won't be good in the wet?

 

When i buy a new set of tires it'll be the rivals instead of the kdw's. I just like bfgoodridge tires.

 

Agreed. I think an awesome street tire is still the re050s. All you need dry grip and gobs of wet.

 

Read the Tire rack launch event page on the Rivals. Luke made a better writeup on Nasioc which shows they demoed not only BFG tires, but compared them to competitors as well. No mention of wet performance anywhere. Tire Rack compares them to the BFG KDs, which also were not good in the wet, the implication here is that they are not expecting them to be good in the wet, though that is something they're careful not to come out and say.

When a salesman demonstrates all about one particular aspect of their product and compares it against several competitors, then doesn't even mention another aspect, what does that say about the aspect he didn't mention???

These are tires that will not hold up to competitors in the wet. I fully expect them to beat most competitors in the dry, though.

My personal feeling is that tires this sticky are worth giving up some dry to gain wet traction for street driving. The Rival will have a loyal following for autox and track tires though, and I fully expect it will be the #1 or #2 choice for that kind of duty. It will be a very good tire, just not one that I feel will suit my desires.

 

What I got from reading both was the Rivals are more biased for dry conditions. However, no one has tested them in wet conditions yet and don't know how the tires will react.

 

Yeap, dry hot conditions

 

Not just on a track, on AutoX also. 3rd run and I had to spray them a lot. It helped but not 100%... It probably depends on a club (and suspension setup plus driving habits as well). With SCCA I think you have quite a big intervals between runs. I autocross with Lotus Club and there are much more runs with just a few minutes intervals.

Z1 are great tires but a bit over-hyped I think. I'm just not a big fan of SS Z1. They are probably better on a street then most other EP tires but then what's the point? They are overkill for street driving (same is true with RS3 and others) IMHO.

I don't have personal experience with re-11. I had SS Z1, Yoko AD08 and now RS3. IMHO RS3>AD08>Z1 for dry grip plus some heat.

I think tirerack rated AD08 higher than RE-11 for dry grip but not wet. AD08 also didn't need as much warm up as RS3 and they tolerated heat better than Z1. I had to spray them on AutoX also but they were holding better than Z1 IMHO. Never had to spray RS3. Also I think Z1 were the least comfortable ones on a street which could be due to their thick sidewalls (AD08 and RS3 are a bit thinner).

Could you comment on their heat tolerance compared to Z1?

 

For autox, the Z1 was the better tire if you couldn't get enough into the RS3. As always, it's about the conditions of the event. Anyways, as for heat tolerance the ZII do have a better tolerance to heat than the Z1. I don't remember how much better, though You can still overheat the tire. I'm trying to remember what I've talked to people about. I believe the ZII still can't tolerate heat like the RS3 can.

 

Might be the minority but I prefer the re070 over the re01r or z1 star spec on my STi.