Official: Oakland Raiders 2011/2012 Season thread
10-18-2011, 11:00 AM
#46
Interesting... that makes it an even better trade then. If palmer busts and they don't make the playoffs then they only have 1 year of a low draft. If he tears it up and they make the playoffs then they have two years of low drafts but they have time to develop Pryor, deal Campbell and keep an eye out for a receiver.
It's not like they were gonna be in the running for Luck anyways. That dude's gonna end up in Stl.
10-18-2011, 11:05 AM
#47
I misread the article. It says the Raiders must win one playoff game for the Bengals to receive 2013 1st rnd pick.
Oakland Raiders on verge of getting Carson Palmer from Cincinnati Bengals, sources say - ESPN
Oakland and Cincinnati are on the verge of completing one of the NFL's biggest trade-deadline deals in decades, with the Raiders acquiring holdout quarterback Carson Palmer from the Bengals in exchange for two first-round picks, according to sources familiar with the deal.
The first first-round pick is in 2012 and the other is a conditional first-round pick in 2013. Palmer was in the Bay Area on Tuesday morning getting a physical before the deal could be completed.
According to a source, if the Raiders win a playoff game in the 2011 season, the Bengals would get a first-round draft pick in 2013. If the Raiders don't win a playoff game in the 2011 season then the Bengals would receive a second-round pick in 2013.
It's a bold move for each team.
Cincinnati is empowering a team it could be competing against for a playoff spot or even in the postseason. The Raiders are turning over another high pick for a quarterback that has been holding out and has struggled in recent seasons when some around the league questioned his arm strength. But ultimately, both sides believed it to be a gamble worth taking.
The deal became feasible when the Raiders lost starting quarterback Jason Campbell to a broken collarbone and the Bengals watched rookie quarterback Andy Dalton lead Cincinnati to a 4-2 record.
Oakland and Cincinnati spent much of Monday discussing the deal to the point early Monday night when a select few people realized it could happen. People involved in the deal's discussions thought it could happen, but they also recognized how delicate the talks were.
Palmer has been working out in Southern California with former Jets quarterback Ken O'Brien.
Palmer also has a strong relationship with Raiders head coach Hue Jackson, with the two men having worked together in Cincinnati from 2004-2006, when Jackson was the Bengals' receivers coach.
Now Palmer could become another former Bengal to make his way west to the Raiders. Oakland needs him.
With Campbell out, the Raiders turned to Kyle Boller to replace him and also had Terrelle Pryor on the bench.
The possibility of trading Palmer came about because Dalton has been impressive throughout training camp and the Bengals' first six games.
Palmer was willing to restructure his contract, which would pay him $6.9 million for the balance of this season, sources said. The Raiders have about $6 million left under the cap.
In December 2005, he signed an extension with the Bengals through 2014 that was valued at $118.75 million. Palmer informed the Bengals in January that he wanted a trade or would retire; his contract remains intact.
He has never spoken publicly about his status and his agent, David Dunn, has confirmed only the original report that Palmer had met with Bengals owner Mike Brown to inform him of his feelings.
It has been reported recently that Palmer himself had been speaking to Brown to persuade him to make a trade.
Palmer's wife, Shaelynn, is a former starting goalkeeper on the women's soccer team at USC and was raised in the San Jose area.
Until now, the biggest recent trade-deadline deals involved receivers. One came in 2008, when the Detroit Lions sent wide receiver Roy Williams and a seventh-round pick to the Dallas Cowboys in exhange for first-, third- and sixth-round picks in 2009. The same week, Williams agreed to a five-year, $45 million extension that included more than $20 million guaranteed. Williams wound up being released before training camp began last summer.
In 2009, the Browns traded receiver Braylon Edwards to the Jets. But rarely have trade deadline deals involved quarterbacks, especially ones in a situation like Palmer's.
The first first-round pick is in 2012 and the other is a conditional first-round pick in 2013. Palmer was in the Bay Area on Tuesday morning getting a physical before the deal could be completed.
According to a source, if the Raiders win a playoff game in the 2011 season, the Bengals would get a first-round draft pick in 2013. If the Raiders don't win a playoff game in the 2011 season then the Bengals would receive a second-round pick in 2013.
It's a bold move for each team.
Cincinnati is empowering a team it could be competing against for a playoff spot or even in the postseason. The Raiders are turning over another high pick for a quarterback that has been holding out and has struggled in recent seasons when some around the league questioned his arm strength. But ultimately, both sides believed it to be a gamble worth taking.
The deal became feasible when the Raiders lost starting quarterback Jason Campbell to a broken collarbone and the Bengals watched rookie quarterback Andy Dalton lead Cincinnati to a 4-2 record.
Oakland and Cincinnati spent much of Monday discussing the deal to the point early Monday night when a select few people realized it could happen. People involved in the deal's discussions thought it could happen, but they also recognized how delicate the talks were.
Palmer has been working out in Southern California with former Jets quarterback Ken O'Brien.
Palmer also has a strong relationship with Raiders head coach Hue Jackson, with the two men having worked together in Cincinnati from 2004-2006, when Jackson was the Bengals' receivers coach.
Now Palmer could become another former Bengal to make his way west to the Raiders. Oakland needs him.
With Campbell out, the Raiders turned to Kyle Boller to replace him and also had Terrelle Pryor on the bench.
The possibility of trading Palmer came about because Dalton has been impressive throughout training camp and the Bengals' first six games.
Palmer was willing to restructure his contract, which would pay him $6.9 million for the balance of this season, sources said. The Raiders have about $6 million left under the cap.
In December 2005, he signed an extension with the Bengals through 2014 that was valued at $118.75 million. Palmer informed the Bengals in January that he wanted a trade or would retire; his contract remains intact.
He has never spoken publicly about his status and his agent, David Dunn, has confirmed only the original report that Palmer had met with Bengals owner Mike Brown to inform him of his feelings.
It has been reported recently that Palmer himself had been speaking to Brown to persuade him to make a trade.
Palmer's wife, Shaelynn, is a former starting goalkeeper on the women's soccer team at USC and was raised in the San Jose area.
Until now, the biggest recent trade-deadline deals involved receivers. One came in 2008, when the Detroit Lions sent wide receiver Roy Williams and a seventh-round pick to the Dallas Cowboys in exhange for first-, third- and sixth-round picks in 2009. The same week, Williams agreed to a five-year, $45 million extension that included more than $20 million guaranteed. Williams wound up being released before training camp began last summer.
In 2009, the Browns traded receiver Braylon Edwards to the Jets. But rarely have trade deadline deals involved quarterbacks, especially ones in a situation like Palmer's.
Last edited by TurnWRX; 10-18-2011 at 11:08 AM.
10-18-2011, 11:24 AM
#48
Awesome...
if he can put up numbers even like he did in 09/10 the Raiders could be scary good. I mean the dude put up almost 4000 yards in 2010 with **** for receivers.
The only bummer is that the offensive line is used to a more mobile QB. Even Boller moves more than Palmer will.
The good thing is that the defense is starting to play better and the running game is still dope. And I'm sure that the Raiders have some similar plays to Cinci because of Jackson so hopefully the transition will be fast... and the dude is a vet.
I'm actually starting to get a little excited about this. I'd like to see the Raiders come out and on the first play of the game just throw a bomb to Ford. Just to prove a point.
so what's you're opinion now that you've educated me on the art of reading before you speak. LOL.
if he can put up numbers even like he did in 09/10 the Raiders could be scary good. I mean the dude put up almost 4000 yards in 2010 with **** for receivers.
The only bummer is that the offensive line is used to a more mobile QB. Even Boller moves more than Palmer will.
The good thing is that the defense is starting to play better and the running game is still dope. And I'm sure that the Raiders have some similar plays to Cinci because of Jackson so hopefully the transition will be fast... and the dude is a vet.
I'm actually starting to get a little excited about this. I'd like to see the Raiders come out and on the first play of the game just throw a bomb to Ford. Just to prove a point.
so what's you're opinion now that you've educated me on the art of reading before you speak. LOL.
10-18-2011, 11:44 AM
#50
I was reading this on yahoo..
The deal smacks of leverage for the Bengals and desperation for the Raiders and coach Hue Jackson. Oakland is 4-2 and has moderately exceeded expectations so far this season, Jackson’s first as head coach. In the aftermath of owner Al Davis’ death, Jackson has taken a larger role in the personnel operations.
I don't think I agree. A bit of desperation sure. But after reading how little they risk in 2013 if they don't make the playoffs and win a game... not so much. If Palmer fits well and plays well he could take the starting job and the raiders can deal Campbell to get a pick or two back.
The yahoo report also talked about how Palmer has struggled since 2007 in the Bangles system. I don't know if I totally agree with that either. It's the coaches responsibility to shape the system around the players and they did not do that. Toss in the fact that in 2007 he through for over 4000 yards and had very little else to work with... not bad.
He had Ocho and TJ and that's it. Rudy Johnson I think ran for under 500 yards and was no good in the passing game. And Reggie Kelly was a bottom rung TE.
I wouldn't say that he did too bad considering EVERYONE knew what was coming and they only had to cover 2 guys... 2 guys that had 200 catches between the 2 of them. LOL.
And he went for almost 4000 yards last year with even less to work with. The Bengels did a HORRIBLE job of player development and basically put all the blame on Palmer. It reminds me of Detroit and Barry Sanders. He was the entire team. He wanted out. They wouldn't let him out. So he retired. We lost the greatest running back of all time when he was 30. He goes to a better team they are instant super bowl contenders and he puts every record so far out of reach we don't see it broke for 20 years if ever. I mean seriously. No injuries... plays for 5 more years. Averages 1500 a year for those years. 7500 yards. Puts him like 5000 yards passed Emmit. 9000 yards from scrimmage was within reason... damn near 30,000 yards from scrimmage.
Man I miss Sanders.
@Ray. You crack me up dude.
10-18-2011, 12:40 PM
#52
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The deal is structured well and shows that Cinci is really happy with how well Dalton is progressing. It could turn out well for both sides. At the least Cinci gets a first pick next year... read top end WR. Best case scenario for them is that they get 2 first picks.
For the Raiders... worst case they have a crap draft next year but they're loaded with young talent and if they pick well that second round pick can fill a roster hole immediately. Best case... they have a hungry QB out to prove something who has some SUPER fast WR's to throw too and Palmer has the arm to throw those deep *****. I just hope he's at least 90% of what he was.
Always liked Palmer as a player.
Now we'll get to see Ford stretch his legs. Hell all 3 of the Raiders starting QB's, their TE's and McFadden all have the ability to get 60 yards downfield.
For the Raiders... worst case they have a crap draft next year but they're loaded with young talent and if they pick well that second round pick can fill a roster hole immediately. Best case... they have a hungry QB out to prove something who has some SUPER fast WR's to throw too and Palmer has the arm to throw those deep *****. I just hope he's at least 90% of what he was.
Always liked Palmer as a player.
Now we'll get to see Ford stretch his legs. Hell all 3 of the Raiders starting QB's, their TE's and McFadden all have the ability to get 60 yards downfield.
Interesting... that makes it an even better trade then. If palmer busts and they don't make the playoffs then they only have 1 year of a low draft. If he tears it up and they make the playoffs then they have two years of low drafts but they have time to develop Pryor, deal Campbell and keep an eye out for a receiver.
It's not like they were gonna be in the running for Luck anyways. That dude's gonna end up in Stl.
It's not like they were gonna be in the running for Luck anyways. That dude's gonna end up in Stl.
Back to the Palmer situation. I am Blown Away that Mike Brown actually pulled the trigger and made the trade (that doesn't happen often with Mike Brown & the Bengals actually making an intelligent decision). I hope Palmer does return to form as he used to be one of the better QB's in the league.
10-18-2011, 01:10 PM
#54
The Raiders will send the Bengals a 2012 first-round draft pick and a conditional 2013 pick for the 31-year-old Palmer. The 2013 selection reportedly will be a first-round pick if Oakland wins one or more playoff game this season. Otherwise, the Raiders will send a second-rounder to Cincinnati.
I suppose that's the only way to get Cinci to budge, and possibly the only decent QB left to pick up.
Raiders are happy, Bengals are happy. Palmer gets traded and the Raiders can run the ball and he won't get wtf owned by rushers all day, he's happy. This will be an interesting upcoming week.
Last edited by iLoqin; 10-18-2011 at 01:13 PM.
10-18-2011, 01:37 PM
#55
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That is pretty hefty price, especially considering that one of these first round picks can be a fresh QB. A first round pick and possibly a second if Oakland wins a playoff game.
I suppose that's the only way to get Cinci to budge, and possibly the only decent QB left to pick up.
Raiders are happy, Bengals are happy. Palmer gets traded and the Raiders can run the ball and he won't get wtf owned by rushers all day, he's happy. This will be an interesting upcoming week.
I suppose that's the only way to get Cinci to budge, and possibly the only decent QB left to pick up.
Raiders are happy, Bengals are happy. Palmer gets traded and the Raiders can run the ball and he won't get wtf owned by rushers all day, he's happy. This will be an interesting upcoming week.
campbell was mediocre at best imo. he had absolutely no accuracy past 15-20 yards and he was clumsy as a running qb. runs, defense, and special teams have been carrying a lot of the raider wins as of late and campbell was a bit of a weak link. palmer may not be in his "prime years" anymore, but neither was gannon when we picked him up. losing campbell to an injury may be a blessing in disguise for the silver an black.
10-18-2011, 01:48 PM
#56
I'd be kind of surprised if they decided to get another Wide Receiver considering how well A.J. Green is doing. It's possible, but it would seem to me that they would rather take a Running Back over another Wide Receiver (depending on what's available) given that Benson isn't getting any younger.
I'd be really shocked if St. Louis decided to draft Luck given the opportunity considering they just got their QB in Bradford. Yeah, he's struggling this year, but that dude needs help and some protection from the O-Line. He was Rookie of the Year last year so I think that would buy him time (at least 1 more year), but I guess it is always a possibility. I just can't think of the last time a team drafted a QB Number 1 and then turned around within the next few years (i.e. 2-4 years) and drafted another QB Number 1.
Back to the Palmer situation. I am Blown Away that Mike Brown actually pulled the trigger and made the trade (that doesn't happen often with Mike Brown & the Bengals actually making an intelligent decision). I hope Palmer does return to form as he used to be one of the better QB's in the league.
I'd be really shocked if St. Louis decided to draft Luck given the opportunity considering they just got their QB in Bradford. Yeah, he's struggling this year, but that dude needs help and some protection from the O-Line. He was Rookie of the Year last year so I think that would buy him time (at least 1 more year), but I guess it is always a possibility. I just can't think of the last time a team drafted a QB Number 1 and then turned around within the next few years (i.e. 2-4 years) and drafted another QB Number 1.
Back to the Palmer situation. I am Blown Away that Mike Brown actually pulled the trigger and made the trade (that doesn't happen often with Mike Brown & the Bengals actually making an intelligent decision). I hope Palmer does return to form as he used to be one of the better QB's in the league.
As for Cinci. A.J. has been a huge surprise as has Dalton and Simpson is doing well. I guess they could take Richardson or Miller but beyond that I don't see anyone out there worth a 1st round pick. There's probably 10 WR's worth drafting in the first round like Justin Blackmon. A lot of people have had Cinci taking Luck at the top spot but with Dalton doing well I don't know if they will.
You gotta figure the top slot will be Cinci or Stl. Either could use Richardson and Blackmon and arguably they both could use Luck. But I guess if they could trade down in the 1st round and pick up an additional pick in the 2/3 rounds that might be a good way to go.
A lot can change by next year. LOl.
10-18-2011, 02:41 PM
#57
I suppose Stl. can trade down and go for another position player to help bradford. But Luck is a lock at number 1. Most of the pros are saying he's the most NFL ready QB they can remember.
As for Cinci. A.J. has been a huge surprise as has Dalton and Simpson is doing well. I guess they could take Richardson or Miller but beyond that I don't see anyone out there worth a 1st round pick. There's probably 10 WR's worth drafting in the first round like Justin Blackmon. A lot of people have had Cinci taking Luck at the top spot but with Dalton doing well I don't know if they will.
You gotta figure the top slot will be Cinci or Stl. Either could use Richardson and Blackmon and arguably they both could use Luck. But I guess if they could trade down in the 1st round and pick up an additional pick in the 2/3 rounds that might be a good way to go.
A lot can change by next year. LOl.
As for Cinci. A.J. has been a huge surprise as has Dalton and Simpson is doing well. I guess they could take Richardson or Miller but beyond that I don't see anyone out there worth a 1st round pick. There's probably 10 WR's worth drafting in the first round like Justin Blackmon. A lot of people have had Cinci taking Luck at the top spot but with Dalton doing well I don't know if they will.
You gotta figure the top slot will be Cinci or Stl. Either could use Richardson and Blackmon and arguably they both could use Luck. But I guess if they could trade down in the 1st round and pick up an additional pick in the 2/3 rounds that might be a good way to go.
A lot can change by next year. LOl.
Can't forget about Indy, Peyton may not be able to play again.
Also Minnesota, just benched McNabb and are going with Christian Ponder. They could use a franchise quarterback. And at 1-5, they could be right in the hunt as well.
St Louis might get some wins here with the pickup of Lloyd, someone who wants to catch the ball.
10-18-2011, 03:51 PM
#59
You gotta throw Miami in that mix. But in that game last night, it was lack of catching. Marshall should have had that ball in the endzone and other players couldn't hold onto the ball either. But I could see Miami going for Luck and giving up on Henne.
Can't forget about Indy, Peyton may not be able to play again.
Also Minnesota, just benched McNabb and are going with Christian Ponder. They could use a franchise quarterback. And at 1-5, they could be right in the hunt as well.
St Louis might get some wins here with the pickup of Lloyd, someone who wants to catch the ball.
Can't forget about Indy, Peyton may not be able to play again.
Also Minnesota, just benched McNabb and are going with Christian Ponder. They could use a franchise quarterback. And at 1-5, they could be right in the hunt as well.
St Louis might get some wins here with the pickup of Lloyd, someone who wants to catch the ball.
10-18-2011, 04:14 PM
#60
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So wen is Palmer showing up to his 1st game? Feel bad for Cambell.. He was playing good enough and having a decent season... Sucks to get injured and replaced cause of that...