Mann engineering
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From: Santa Cruz, California
Car Info: 2006 obp wrx limited sedan
Not sure if you're being serious... If you are, please explain.
My old shop had a Dynapack, it would do things that (at the time) you simply couldn't do on a roller dyno.
For example with the Dynapack we could hold an engine at a specific RPM while we made changes. It allowed us to measure the difference in torque output at a specific RPM in real time.
Something Custom
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From: Las Vegas NV
Car Info: 2018 Grand Cherokee Limited Ecodiesel EOC Stage 1
Something Custom
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Car Info: 2018 Grand Cherokee Limited Ecodiesel EOC Stage 1
General Pimpin'
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From: Knee deep in beer. subabrew crew, ca.
Car Info: MY04 aspen wrx wagon.
It's interesting that Mann Engineering is taking the next step and offering suspension packages. Gary's extremely bright and very enthusiastic. I see similarities to what they're trying to accomplish and where tuners such as Steve Dinan started as (I've also used Dinan for my prior BMWs). I selected Mann to work on my vehicle based on the recommdations of 04GG and two other friends. It's true that startup costs need to be recouped and the way is usually to amortize the costs across a wide customer base. Hopefully the teething stage will be short lived and people can focus on the excellent service and products.
People don't understand the difference between... say... Milltek and Invidia and why one is so much more than the other.
As for his suspension set up. Yes it's expensive but it's also a one stop. It's great for people that want to take their car in. Have it done. Never touch it again. I'd love a set of those coil overs but they're out of my budget.
General Pimpin'
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From: Knee deep in beer. subabrew crew, ca.
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I'll comment on a couple things here. First, the MAHA dyno is very nice but it should not cost any more to operate than any other load bearing dyno. They all use similar Eddy Brakes to apply load to the rollers. It does sound like Mann has a very nice dyno cell set up which is not cheap to set up in the first place. The MAHA dyno is also pricey, so I imagine they invested quite a bit of startup cost there.
As far as tuning costs, the quote in the OP is pretty up there. Part of that is just the cost Ecutek licenses and I imagine the other part is the cost of having to fly in a tuner. I believe AHQ has similar pricing if not higher since their tuner flies in from Japan? Local tuners don't have to deal with that kind of overhead so our prices can naturally be lower.
Either way, the pricing is what it is. I've heard nothing but good things about the quality of work at Mann, so I can only assume they care about what they're doing. There are always different priced options in the market... sometimes more expensive means better, but sometimes there are similar options at lower costs. I think that's largely for individuals to figure out and decide for themselves.
Thanks
-- Ed
As far as tuning costs, the quote in the OP is pretty up there. Part of that is just the cost Ecutek licenses and I imagine the other part is the cost of having to fly in a tuner. I believe AHQ has similar pricing if not higher since their tuner flies in from Japan? Local tuners don't have to deal with that kind of overhead so our prices can naturally be lower.
Either way, the pricing is what it is. I've heard nothing but good things about the quality of work at Mann, so I can only assume they care about what they're doing. There are always different priced options in the market... sometimes more expensive means better, but sometimes there are similar options at lower costs. I think that's largely for individuals to figure out and decide for themselves.
Thanks
-- Ed
I don't think a lot of the people up here... the newer generation know who Bill is.
Gary is crazy smart and has high high standards. I like the dude. The products they offer are all good. They pretty much don't do half assed. I can appreciate that.
People don't understand the difference between... say... Milltek and Invidia and why one is so much more than the other.
As for his suspension set up. Yes it's expensive but it's also a one stop. It's great for people that want to take their car in. Have it done. Never touch it again. I'd love a set of those coil overs but they're out of my budget.
People don't understand the difference between... say... Milltek and Invidia and why one is so much more than the other.
As for his suspension set up. Yes it's expensive but it's also a one stop. It's great for people that want to take their car in. Have it done. Never touch it again. I'd love a set of those coil overs but they're out of my budget.
There is one thing I don't like about the place though. They like to talk bad about other shop's parts/service. And I'm talking about parts that are well known and appreciated throughout the whole country and maybe even abroad. Parts that are known to be good/great with thousands of happy customers. I know that they are running business and need to sell their parts which are probably good/great too. I just don't agree on that kind of a strategy.
Technical Know-It-All
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,123
From: Sterling, VA
Car Info: '02 WRX + '15 WRX
That defeats the entire purpose of coilovers and contradicts real world practice. They need to be serviced periodically and coilovers are a complete waste if you have a setting chosen at install and let at that rather than putting them through a test and tune process.
Since most people aren't racing their cars, or trying to tune the shocks for specific purpose, there isn't any need to make constant changes. If they like the way it feels, they like it.
That's it.
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From: Santa Cruz, California
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The coilover is being chosen to give me a asthetically pleasing drop as my tokico struts handle beautifully.
I would love a set and forget type application.
Your statements only reflect real world track use...which isnt everyone.
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There is one thing I don't like about the place though. They like to talk bad about other shop's parts/service. And I'm talking about parts that are well known and appreciated throughout the whole country and maybe even abroad. Parts that are known to be good/great with thousands of happy customers. I know that they are running business and need to sell their parts which are probably good/great too. I just don't agree on that kind of a strategy.
-- Ed
Even for track application I don't see a problem with pre-set configuration. For example RCE has recommended track settings for their T2 coilovers.
I'm thinking about buying T2s for mostly track use and I know zero about coilovers. Probably will learn with time but at this point I just want something that performs better than GTWOX(Bilstein)/RCE Spring combo I have. So I'm OK with a recommended setting if it will match the goal. What's wrong with that?
I don't care about stance/flush look or etc. I actually like that GTWORX/RCE combo give almost no drop compared to a factory setup.
I'm thinking about buying T2s for mostly track use and I know zero about coilovers. Probably will learn with time but at this point I just want something that performs better than GTWOX(Bilstein)/RCE Spring combo I have. So I'm OK with a recommended setting if it will match the goal. What's wrong with that?
I don't care about stance/flush look or etc. I actually like that GTWORX/RCE combo give almost no drop compared to a factory setup.
Last edited by wwrx; Mar 28, 2014 at 11:22 AM.
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From: Santa Cruz, California
Car Info: 2006 obp wrx limited sedan
Even for track application I don't see a problem with pre-set configuration. For example RCE has recommended track settings for their T2 coilovers.
I'm thinking about buying T2s for mostly track use and I know zero about coilovers. Probably will learn with time but at this point I just want something that performs better than GTWOX(Bilstein)/RCE Spring combo I have. So I'm OK with a recommended setting if it will match the goal. What's wrong with that?
I'm thinking about buying T2s for mostly track use and I know zero about coilovers. Probably will learn with time but at this point I just want something that performs better than GTWOX(Bilstein)/RCE Spring combo I have. So I'm OK with a recommended setting if it will match the goal. What's wrong with that?
Theres nothing wrong with winging it unless someone is very nieve and doesnt know a thing about what they are doing.
General Pimpin'
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From: Knee deep in beer. subabrew crew, ca.
Car Info: MY04 aspen wrx wagon.
For the people that are buying those kits and getting them set up the either don't know exactly what they want or they do. You go to a shop and have it set up. They put it where they think it should be or you tell them it should be.
It's done. You drive it. Etc.
That does NOT defeat the purpose of coil overs. They will still handle much much better than stock and you had a lot more options as far as ride height, dampening and spring rates. Nothing wrong with getting something set up and leaving it alone until it needs to be rebuilt.
General Pimpin'
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From: Knee deep in beer. subabrew crew, ca.
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Agreed with what you said 100%. Gary is a nice guy. They do very clean job and the shop seems to be in great shape. I bought an exhaust from them (Miltek). Agree on prices. It's up to the shop to set prices for their service/parts. If you don't like it - don't go there.
There is one thing I don't like about the place though. They like to talk bad about other shop's parts/service. And I'm talking about parts that are well known and appreciated throughout the whole country and maybe even abroad. Parts that are known to be good/great with thousands of happy customers. I know that they are running business and need to sell their parts which are probably good/great too. I just don't agree on that kind of a strategy.
There is one thing I don't like about the place though. They like to talk bad about other shop's parts/service. And I'm talking about parts that are well known and appreciated throughout the whole country and maybe even abroad. Parts that are known to be good/great with thousands of happy customers. I know that they are running business and need to sell their parts which are probably good/great too. I just don't agree on that kind of a strategy.
That's my perspective on it anyways.
That happens is everything. You go to one surgeon they're gonna bag on another surgeons work. Go to a window tinter they're gonna say... man who ****ed up your car even if the previous tint job was perfect. It can be seen as bad business ethics as it turns people off. Or it can be seen as someone being cool with you and just shooting the ****.
I think that business owners and shop representatives need to be very careful with exactly who they talk like that with as it does get out and it can hurt business. Like in this case. Gary probably shouldn't say those kinds of things to as many people as he does. It's not the only way to sell a part.
It's like me. I don't even own a shop. I talk crap about Perrin because I've had literally nothing but bad experiences with them and their products. So if someone asks me... he should I guy part X or Perrin part X. I generally will say... man perrin sucks *** buy part X. Difference is they're a business. They're suppose to be impartial... in other words... careful who they ***** too.