I posted this in the road racing forum, but didn't get get any responses...

I was wondering if anyone has gone through this training or knows anything about it. It sounds really good to me, but I want to get some feedback from people who have attended the school before I sign up. Even if you have only done the driving schools I'd like to hear from you. Thanks.

Here's the website...
http://www.espnrussellracing.com/me...g/mechanics.php

 

the link you posted leads to nowhere...

but if your talking about the school that lasts a year, I know that David (GS Motorsports) is currently enrolled in the program and absolutely loves it. I'll try and have him post his thoughts next time i see him.

 

http://www.espnrussellracing.com/mec.../mechanics.php

yes thats exactly what he is doing right now...

like i said, i'll try to get him to post

 

I looked at Russell and decided to go a different route. I walked around the paddock at then Sears Point, and asked if anyone needed a grunt worker. I found a job with The Racers Group and a year later had been through multiple complete builds of Le Mans style and Club racing Porsches. I'd been to 5 professional American Le Mans and Grand-Am races as part of the crew doing fueling, learning about chassis setup, tire compounds etc. During that first year I had established myself as a competent and hard working member of the crew. Plus instead of spending 10K and not really having enough time for another job I was making some money

On the other side of the coin, two guys from russell would work nights after 5 or 6 and come down to help us prep the cars for races. They said they liked it and that as long as they remembered that it is a great way to get into real professional racing within a year they could make the commitment to finish that year. But that financially it was a strain not working. One of the guys went on to work for us and was not all that bright, and soon left to do some kind of sales job. The other was bright and after working with us for a while got a job with Doyle-Rissi Ferrari working on the Prototype cars in the Grand-Am Series.

Just my take on it, Russell is making a butt-load of money on their school. They have 15-25 mechanics paying them to work there, and an endless stream of students coming in to pay alot of money to drive cars really fast that are maintained by people who are not getting paid (can you be fired?), some of these people are more than competent but some are complete f***wits. It turns me off from taking their classes.

By the end of my time with TRG I had gone to Porsche Motorsport School to learn all the ins and outs of the then new GT3-RS and been to PI Research seminars to study vehicle dynamics. All paid for by TRG. I was doing all the data acquisition for the Bosch and Motec data systems on 4 cars. I'd been to the 24 hours of Daytona 3 times plus at least 30 other races and been offered jobs to work on teams all across the country.

Bottom line, if you are smart enough you don't really have to pay to learn how to work on race cars. Being with a team for a year working for 10 bucks an hour who goes to races or builds cars or has anything to do with what you want to do in racing will get you there without spending a year and alot of money with Russell.

 

2.8RSR - thanks for the info. I really want to get into the racing industry and I am struggling to find a way in. I have a mechanical engineering degree and would love to be designing parts for the racing industry. Most companies making these parts are looking for practical experience and don't really care about the degree. I have experience working on my own cars, rebuilding engines and what not, but nothing race related or professional.

Would you happen to have any contacts of people in the bay area or at infineon that would be willing to talk with me about starting a career in racing design or r&d? I would quit my job(consulting engineer) in a second to somehow get involved with racing. I am also totally willing to start from the bottom and work as a grunt like you did.

Russell seems like a good starting point, but not getting paid for a whole year + 10k for tuition is really making me have to think about it. I am willing to make this sacrifice but I have to be 100% sure that it will be worth it.

 

There are quite a few guys up at Infineon who are amazing fabricators. What might be funny to you is I doubt half of them would have a mechanical engineering degree. They've just been around long enough to know what is going to work and what wont. Although that will usually only take them so far, they will work on historic or club racing cars and maybe a few sporst cars and some small open wheel cars. If you want to get into SERIOUS racing then you would need that degree to be a parts designer/engineer.

First thing is to get a job up there though and for that you will need to be a little humble. I know one guy in particular at McGees Mortorsports (Rolf) that would hate you from the moment he laid eyes on you if you came in saying you know alot about structural stresses because of your degree (which you probably do). Fabricators can be very cocky sometimes about how strong the cars are that they build, and they believe that they are better at what they do than anyone else. That being said, they probably are because they do it all day every day.

If you want to go with a professional team there are a few up there. The Racers Group is one of them. Kevin Buckler is the owner and a driver and is always on the look out for CHEAP talent. They are going through a dramatic change this year, they are relocating to Petaluma and expanding their race team to work with Daytona Prototypes. By far they are the biggest and most diverse "shop" up there. The web site is www.theracersgroup.com There is a chassis dyno, engine shop, engine dyno, showroom, parts warehouse, race shop, street shop, and a club race shop, with at least 2-3 million in different cars when the cars arent on the road.

As far as I know Lynx is still up there, they do Indy Lights or Star Mazda series, I can't remember. Huffaker was in the west paddock right next to the food court, but there has been so much construction going on in the last few years they might have moved up to the top of the hill by the go kart track, they did trans-am racing. Griggs is a father/son style business that deals with club racing and street mustangs, probably not a great place for full racing experience.

There are 3 fabrication shops that I am familiar with
1 is McGees they do just about every kind of car. Rolf worked there and even though he is not my favorite guy to work with he can make a perfect life sized Dolphin out of steel with a few hammers and shapers (sold it for 10K).
The other two I cant remember their names, but I remember where they are.
They are both in the east paddock towards the north side right by where the turn 10 wall is (big green wall). One is on the left, they work on all sorts of machining for all types of cars, many vintage cars, and they will build full tube frame tubs. The other is run by a guy named Ian something, british guy that works mainly on older ex-formula cars F1 and such, I've seen 1 of 3 F-50 Ferrari factory race cars in there getting gone through, Gulf Mclaren F1 (My favorite) and all sorts of priceless cars getting worked on by him.

It is a small community up there where once you've worked there a while you will meet more people in other shops and get more connections and probably fine tune what part of racing you want to be involved in. If you are friendly with the guys up there you can ask to help out at night before a race to get your hands on all sorts of cool stuff. As long as you work up there something will open up for you.

One word of warning though. It will take over your life if you aren't careful. I was home maybe a week and a half out of every month during the racing season. It was very hard to keep a relationship going with my girlfriends because I was always more into working at the shop than being with them. Both out of necessity to get the cars going and I really enjoyed it. One guy I met worked on an indy team and was home 2 months out of the year the rest of his time was spent living out of a hotel room. I did it when I was young and had unlimited energy, I looked at the guys who were doing it in their 50s and didn't want to still be doing it. Except the engineers of course, they don't get dirty and get paid more.

I think you might get bored with Russell, most of them are probably street mechanics who want to get into racing not guys with an engineering degree.

Go during mid week around mid-day, things are usually mellow then. People are able to talk more and can give you better ideas on where you might try.

 

2.8RSR- Thanks for your insight. That is a ton of stuff to think about, thanks for taking the time to make such a detailed response. I will have to check out that website and make a trip up to infineon. I have asked a ton of people about the racing industry and you have been by far the most helpful.

Thanks again, Dave.

 

Well, this is David that stimul8n mentioned. I'm currently enrolled in the Russell Mechanics Training Program(MTP). 2.8RSR was correct in saying that working for a year without getting paid is a huge strain and sometimes along the way you can lose sight of what you are working towards. But there is no other program in the country that compares to the experince and real world knowledge you will gain as an MTP. Most of the mechanics are like yourself, car guys looking to getting a job in the racing biz. Some, like myself, have previous racing experience but attend the program not only for the training, but for the driving, the connections you make, and to be able to put on your resume that you completed the program. Almost every professional racing team from nascar to IRL, champ, nhra, sports car, you name it, have someone on their team that was once an MTP.

2.8 was incorrect in saying that russell is making a boat load of money off of the mtp's. For your 10 large, you recieve $3,000 worth of snap on tools, a $2900 driving course, a $3200 racing course, 5 $1000 lapping days and 5 $1200 races. It is mandatory that you participate in 5 of the formula russell champioship races so that you have a better idea of the vehicle dynamics, and how different adjustments affect the car. And a 1 day $600 Karting school. NO team in the world will ask you to drive their cars. At russell, they make you.

I enjoy the program, for all it's ups and downs, and recomend it to anybody who can afford to take that year off of work. The connections are worth it(I had the opportunity to go karting with the Andretti/Green IRL team last week), what you learn and how yo learn it are well worth it, and being able to put MTP Graduate on your resume is absolutely priceless. But, hey, this is all my opinion.

 

Dave & mbquarts
I was thinking about that yesterday and remembered that the Russell guys did get the tools and track time that they really enjoyed. That is a very important part to being a worthy race mechanic/engineer; respecting the car and what it is that both the driver and car are able to do under the right circumstances. How the changes that you make to the car effect how the car reacts. It is much easier to convey this to drivers if you have experienced it. In my case I was able to use the money I made working to buy a track only Porsche and take it to HPDE classes. I also got to ride in our race cars and study the telemetry at different tracks. You must be able to communicate efficiently between the driver and mechanics about what the car is doing and how best to solve any problems you come across. Russell will help you with that and it can be the difference between being a good wrench or an engineer who understands all aspects of a car. One class that I took a few years back with a guy named Claude Rouelle gave me alot of insight into the dynamics of race car engineering. The web site is www.optimumg.com, they just came out with a 12 day seminar which I think for someone just starting out would be overkill, even the 3 day would take a few times to get all that Claude is trying to get across. Either way I highly recommend that class no matter what you are trying to achieve in racing. Like going through Russell it is about investing in yourself and always gaining knowledge about your field.

I still think Russell is doing pretty well with the mechanics paying to work there. Lets say they have 20 guys in the class, instead of paying them a minimum of 30K a year to maintain all of these cars they save that 600K and put it elsewhere (pocket?). From what I heard the cars are not in that great of shape either. That is just what I hear and of course I am biased, the customers we worked with had bottomless pockets, Dave has first hand experience and would know better than I.

 

GSMotorsports-thanks for posting about your experience. I did not know that you get tools and all that driving experience. I could always use more tools and learning new driving techniques would be incredible. On average how much experience do people in the training program have? Does the program accomodate both rookies and experienced racers? Also, does anyone else have engineering backgounds that you know of or do they mostly have "hands on" experience? One more question, what are the job opportunities like after you graduate? Thanks in advance...this is really helping me decide what I should do.

2.8RSR- I will have to check out that class as well, it sounds very interesting. I am still up in the air about whether I should join the training program or not, but your responses have been informative.

I think that it is a good thing that both of you have had positive experiences in racing with and without taking the training program. It makes me feel confident that I will love working in the industry regardless of how I get started...just gotta get my foot in the door!!!

 

MBQuart-

Some of the people that come into the program have never wrenched before, just like cars. Others have years of experience on teams and with private racing and are there for the resume. There is job placement, with incredible results placing people in racing all over the states, australia, and even europe. Call Rob Klyver at (800) 733-0345 to arrange a tour of the shop.

 

I can't speak from experience in the auto racing world, but I expect there are a lot of similarities to pro audio- in that despite not having the "hands-on experience" but having the ME degree in actuality puts you technically ahead of most of your competition, (there are a lot of guys running mixing boards and recording studios, some of them are very good, but only a few actually have an EE degree and really understand - like on a mathamatical level, what they are doing.)

The key to taking advantage of that is just what 2.8RSR is suggesting- to show some humility and subject yourself to some "grunt work" time, pay your dues as it were, during which time you'll be making contacts and gaining that precious experience, the fact that you have the understanding of Materials, statics and dynamics- all that stuff will come into play as time goes on, and if you don't screw up on account of bad attitude or being an a**hole, you will probably have the job of your dreams in a couple of years.

A program like the MTP has its perks for sure, and I'm sure its well worthwhile for someone who either has the time and money to take it on, or lacks the technical knowledge needed to dive into the business, and at the same time its a chance to make connections and get to know players in the game, but it kinda comes down to where your head's at and where your interests are.

But seriously, you spent a lot getting the ME and it really is very valuable knowledge, back that up with a little real world experience in the trenches and you will soon be able to decide who you want to work for, rather than wondering who you can work for.

 

I'm going to give him a call asap. I went to the sf autoshow and Russell had a booth advertising all the classes. I tried talking to the rep but he didn't know any specifics about the course and he ran out of MTP flyers, but he did give me the same reference you did.