It's not that we can't get the accounts from 2800 years ago.

These accounts were originally made by a man/person. These accounts were then passed on for 2800 years and translated to boot so I'm saying that something was lost and trying to figure to it out with what's left is not an accurate portrayal of God.

Try getting a story of what happened at the start of the day from 3 different people... by the end ofthe day, they are not the same and if you tell the same story to other people and then listen to them at the end of the day from the people that weren't actually there and just heard the story, it would be very different. At least that's my take on it. Who knows?

 

Hmmm I did say the validity of the story wasn't the point But if you bring up such things... I find it funny that people will gladly accept greco-roman mythology, history and philosophy as being true to the original. Heck, no one ever even seems to talk about the validity of Koran. But the judeo-christian scriptures are oddly more suspect. We can't have it both ways

jason

 

The answer to this question is:

We do not know. We will never know in our lifetime.

However, the only thing that seperates man from animal is the ability to actively persue knowledge and understanding.

The interesting thing is that no matter what we believe, everything will continue to exist as it has existed and will continue to exist whether we exist or not.

Therefore, it is pointless to persue belief when it is our knowledge and understanding that makes our lives important.

 

>that is my point. atheists have no basis, because you can't prove a negative, so then theoritically, if you can't prove there is NOT a God, then there must be one. thank you.<

So by that logic Elvis still lives I guess.

 

That's why I couldn't stand the religious studies classes I took in college. Unfortunately, that excuse won't exactly get you a good grade. So, I came to the conclusion that rational discussion on such a topic is the only way we can learn about the topic and advance our knowledge. Sure, it can be frustrating because you can't always make other people understand what you believe, but if you come into it with an open mind I've found that it is possible to come away from such a discussion with a mutual respect for one another.

EDIT: It is also interesting because there are valid and invalid arguments as shown above by Peaty.

 

And you go back to my first comments. Knowledge and Understanding are equally as subject as belief to being pointless, going by your reasonsing. This is because our understanding is always changing, meaning its always wrong because we are always correcting it. You can't throw out faith and belief and keep what you call "knowledge and understanding", esp. when you make both decisions on different criteria while discussing it as though you are using the same criteria.

Science (meaning "knowledge" in Latin) is as continually in flux to the same degree that faith is a subjective matter... therefore, knowledge is as subjective as faith (its subjective your current knowledge limitations) Because "proof" is only as good as the given and the logic applied. Assume all logic is correct. How many times has our givens been proven wrong

So, how is knowledge superior over faith?

Please do not think I am under the opinion that knowledge is bad. I like knowing stuff. Its fun to learn things all the time. But I think we need to get some perspective on 1) just how much we Truly know about our Universe compared to what we think we know and 2) that Truth in Science is as intangible to use as proving one's faith. The journey for Science will never end... that is what make it unreliable. Make sense?

jason

 

Good response Peaty


The reason why the logic that Peaty response to is so rediculous is that someone's trying to use a truism to prove crap.

True. You cannot prove God does not exist.

False. Not being able to prove God does not exist does not prove that he does.

Well, unless, of course, Peaty's right

jason

 

Easy there tiger, i dunno about that.

<<<translated the Aeneid from Latin to English. and people think japanese is a hard language to understand.

 

You know Steppin, if you watch religious people closely its actually, and unfortunately, the opposite. For the most part they are just liek the rest of the world.

When something bad happens they blame God. They may say its in response to their sin. They may say its some mystery thing they can't (or only they can?) understand. Or they may, probably most often, get mad at God for ruining their day or week or life.

When something good happens, they generally forget that God has any concern or care for them. They pat themselves on the back for doing the right thing with their money, or positioning themselves just right at their job, or being smart enough to discern the right risks to take to make everything come out OK.

This is the way most "godly" people act, from what I have seen. What the judeo-christian God seems to ask is that adherents understand that "**** happens" and none of it will thwart his ultimate goals so just go about your daily business remembering who you are and who you serve... too many Christians clamouring for themselves, blaming you and everyone else including God for everything.

Ah, and you asked before... I do believe in God. I grew up in a Jewish home and did all that till I was in highschool. Now I am a Christian... but not as delusional as some


jason

 

That's OK if you don't know about that, I do

scientia: knowledge, science, skill (or that is the "know-how" to do something).]


Remember Wheelock?

jason

 

I understand what you're saying and that's the other side of delusional belief in god - blaming God when something good happens to you. But have you never seen a professional football game on TV? Do you notice that every time they score a touchdown, they get down on one knee and thank GOD for getting them a touchdown? I see bott sides of it all the time and I think you can guess how I feel about it.

So if you don't mind my asking, how would you describe your religious affiliation? Do you believe in Jesus Christ, and so on and so forth?

 

I know what you mean about the games. I yell back at the TV "Hey! Guess what, God's trying care for the poor and work out his plans for the fate of human kind right know. Screw your football game!"


Well "Jesus Christ and so on" is part and parcel of being a Christian... or at least I still hope it is. I believe it all through and through. The distinction I was trying to make earlier is that my perspectives and how I live my life are actually changed by my faith. You'll find most christians work their lives pretty much like anyone else. The spend their money and seek to preserve their lives and worry about their future pretty much like anyone else. They're basically "good people", but they are still indistinguishable from the vast majority of the world in how they view it and live their lives in it. I on the other hand dont just believe this "worthless jibberish", I live it out Being wronged, robbed, bereft of my rights, slandered, etc is not my worst fear. I'm programmed by the world I live in, for sure, to have certain responses when someone tries to do those things to me. But slowly I'm working out of that and trying to be far more concerned with things like: When I spend my money, do I portray God's self-proclaimed heart? Like, caring for the poor and protecting the weak? When I choose my job am I clamouring for my life and practicing a self-sufficiency that replaces God's care? Or am I seeing this as a gift from God and using my work as a place to be an example of what God asks of those who love him? Do I feel the need to brow-beat people with religiosity, or can I trust God and take his word that if I just live out my daily life as an example he'll take care of the rest... he doesnt actually need my skills or my money anyhow. Do I feel the need to make everyone fit my moral code or do I realize that God actually asks us to care about the things he cares about as opposed to getting it all just right. Etc... etc...

This sort of Christianity, where God is actually the actor and I can be fully aware of my incapability, brokenness and God's lack of a demand for me to "get it right", doesn't just drive non-Christians crazy, but most Christians too. Were I to "get it right", I would no longer need God, now would I? (Which, incidentally, is why the scientific unattainable need to get it right clashes with faith.) What I find, however, is when we stop rationalizing and forcing God to fit what makes sense to us, whether you believe its God's word or not, this is what the Bible asks of us. Its not easy, and its certainly not a crutch.

jason