3000 murdered..
me again!
02-04-2004, 09:27 AM
#126
you guys think too much...enjoy life man...take it one day at a time...just be grateful and happy we are still alive, breathing, eating the food you want, driving your subarus, getting laid, spending time with family...
...being a foreigner to this country, don't know much about the history of the U.S., but i know this much....im sure as hell glad im living here now, raising my son here, than if i was back home (P.I). And i am grateful for the U.S. government for this, not to mention that your forefathers saved us from the Spaniards and Japanese in WW1, WW2, and the continued support the U.S. gives my homeland after the fact that a bunch of nationalists radicals wanted the U.S. bases out<---good move btw
, since the P.I. can be wiped out with one missile from any of the neighboring Asian countries with no line of defense…oh yeah, we have some WW2 planes. Oppurtunites and some sort of leisures in life, my family and i would not have back home, we are able to have here. We might not even be able to eat meat,chicken, or go to McDonalds as freely as we want to because we'd be in a financial struggle(don't argue with me, i just know, i lived there and i know how hard it is). But over here, i can say that we are ok, not rich, not poor, just right.
I support the troops, the president, the government, because i am now an American (naturalized in 94). This is my country now, this where we are now...i don't serve in the military, or do any volunteer work for the government..so the least i can do is support them, as much as i hate war (who wants people dead anyways), i choose to support them, because of them, i am alive, they lay their lives for me, and I am very grateful for that, we all should be. A "big" mistake or what not, call it stupidity in part of the government/military...what are we suppose to do? rag on them? is that going to help? will our whining stop all the killings?
I am very sure i don't have the answers, most of us probably don't, so all i can do is have faith towards everyone. Not just us Americans, but towards those this country has conflicts with. I will have faith upon the people around the world that i will continue to believe that there is still some good in our hearts, i will persist on this faith, that somehow, everyone will just come out of their senses, and do the ultimate goodness and kindness towards one another. I really hope all the hate and madness fade away if not end.
again, thanks for another day of living.
...being a foreigner to this country, don't know much about the history of the U.S., but i know this much....im sure as hell glad im living here now, raising my son here, than if i was back home (P.I). And i am grateful for the U.S. government for this, not to mention that your forefathers saved us from the Spaniards and Japanese in WW1, WW2, and the continued support the U.S. gives my homeland after the fact that a bunch of nationalists radicals wanted the U.S. bases out<---good move btw
, since the P.I. can be wiped out with one missile from any of the neighboring Asian countries with no line of defense…oh yeah, we have some WW2 planes. Oppurtunites and some sort of leisures in life, my family and i would not have back home, we are able to have here. We might not even be able to eat meat,chicken, or go to McDonalds as freely as we want to because we'd be in a financial struggle(don't argue with me, i just know, i lived there and i know how hard it is). But over here, i can say that we are ok, not rich, not poor, just right.I support the troops, the president, the government, because i am now an American (naturalized in 94). This is my country now, this where we are now...i don't serve in the military, or do any volunteer work for the government..so the least i can do is support them, as much as i hate war (who wants people dead anyways), i choose to support them, because of them, i am alive, they lay their lives for me, and I am very grateful for that, we all should be. A "big" mistake or what not, call it stupidity in part of the government/military...what are we suppose to do? rag on them? is that going to help? will our whining stop all the killings?
I am very sure i don't have the answers, most of us probably don't, so all i can do is have faith towards everyone. Not just us Americans, but towards those this country has conflicts with. I will have faith upon the people around the world that i will continue to believe that there is still some good in our hearts, i will persist on this faith, that somehow, everyone will just come out of their senses, and do the ultimate goodness and kindness towards one another. I really hope all the hate and madness fade away if not end.
again, thanks for another day of living.
02-04-2004, 09:27 AM
#127
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Originally posted by psoper
OK Sisq- screw my tax money, forget about that part of it-
forget about the fact that we are the only country in the world using depleted uranium munitions which has a half-life measured in thousands of years, and is already killing your compatriots from their exposure in the first Gulf war by the thousand.
forget that in addition to the handful of Taliban and AlQeuda that we might have buried in Afghanistan, we have also killed and maimed tens of thousands of innocent civilians in an effort to "liberate them"
Man, wake up and smell the funeral flowers, It's your friends blood, it could be Andy's blood, it could be yours- 7 so far? how high does the count need to go before this all becomes clear?
War has GOT to be an absolute last resort, unjust use of military force only serves to breed hatred and in turn terror; plain and simple.
I'd go so far as to say that none of our recent actions in foreign countries are making us any safer here at home, its just making these *******s a lot richer.
The more we as a nation put up with these creeps and their twisted world views, the more brutality we deal out, the more we can expect back, and if this country doesn't wake up to that fact really soon, we will- all of us as a nation, be destined to the same fate as all previous failed empires.
I respect the hell out of all of you guys that served in uniform, I made some life choices, some of which at times I regret, that prevented me from doing so, but you can bet your *** that if a situation arose where I felt our country was threatened I would do anything and everything in my power to defend it.
Right now, I believe very strongly that the biggest threat to our nation is the corrupt corporate/fundamentalist/reactionaries that have taken over our media, both houses of Congress and the Supreme Court, not to mention the frat boy in the white house
God help us all if their will be done.
OK Sisq- screw my tax money, forget about that part of it-
forget about the fact that we are the only country in the world using depleted uranium munitions which has a half-life measured in thousands of years, and is already killing your compatriots from their exposure in the first Gulf war by the thousand.
forget that in addition to the handful of Taliban and AlQeuda that we might have buried in Afghanistan, we have also killed and maimed tens of thousands of innocent civilians in an effort to "liberate them"
Man, wake up and smell the funeral flowers, It's your friends blood, it could be Andy's blood, it could be yours- 7 so far? how high does the count need to go before this all becomes clear?
War has GOT to be an absolute last resort, unjust use of military force only serves to breed hatred and in turn terror; plain and simple.
I'd go so far as to say that none of our recent actions in foreign countries are making us any safer here at home, its just making these *******s a lot richer.
The more we as a nation put up with these creeps and their twisted world views, the more brutality we deal out, the more we can expect back, and if this country doesn't wake up to that fact really soon, we will- all of us as a nation, be destined to the same fate as all previous failed empires.
I respect the hell out of all of you guys that served in uniform, I made some life choices, some of which at times I regret, that prevented me from doing so, but you can bet your *** that if a situation arose where I felt our country was threatened I would do anything and everything in my power to defend it.
Right now, I believe very strongly that the biggest threat to our nation is the corrupt corporate/fundamentalist/reactionaries that have taken over our media, both houses of Congress and the Supreme Court, not to mention the frat boy in the white house
God help us all if their will be done.
-The half-life of the DU does suck and i think the armed forces could use a different metal to penetrate just as well so i agree with you on that. I also agree with the fact war should be a last resort so we see eye to eye on a few things.
Yet you prove the point i made before on "Having your cake and eating it too" in reference to the thousands of innocent people that have died. It seems Americans are in a big hurry for everything. They want fast food, they hate rush hour traffic and having to wait for anything, they want everything to happen NOW. Thousands of people died because the American people wanted everything to happen now while CNN covered it all. I didn't see the American people complaining when they watched the bombs hitting target(s) from the saftey of their home...instead they watched with buttered popcorn.
The air campaigns resulted in a LOT of innocent casualties and you know what...shiet happens and it's all part of war. If the people of this country weren't in a big damn hurry for results then the military could have managed to achieve even MORE with a SURGICAL ground attack with almost zero innocent casualties... and yes there's such a thing for caves and ground personel because i helped write an SOP for it for a couple teams inculding my own team!!!! Believe it or not but a team of 6 trained/motivated men can select targets and not kill any innocent people after they unleash CS gas in the middle of the night with NOD's on.
But did you really think that was going to happen!? Hell no! because it would have taken way too long and the impatient people of this country would have said "what's taking so long, what's taking so long... are we there yet, are we there yet!?" This would have put Bush and members of the whitehouse in a equal/worse situation. They would be frowned upon because the war in afghanistan (im talking about Operation Anaconda not the current peacekeeping mission) wasn't producing any results fast enough.
A surgical ground/CQC/MOUT attack may have taken FOREVER but it would have produced VERY little friendly casualties. Then you know what would have happened? Bush would start to worry about his next 4 years and getting elected again when he still has the surgical war going on in afghanistan that's 2 years old yet little to show for it (they take a lot of time). So he took a BIG gamble by crossing his fingers in hope the innocent would be spared, dropped the bombs to get this done faster and still has people breathing down his neck...you just CAN'T win when you're the man in charge.
Lastly, im glad you'd grab a rifle if it came to that point and im glad you support the servicemen and women because they have no say in the matter...they'd have to listen to mickey mouse if he was the president.
Eric
Subiedon said it best. just be happy! be thankful you're not there and that we have those brave people who are. Enjoy life! and love eachother. Love is the best word i can think of in times like these.
Last edited by Salty; 02-04-2004 at 09:37 AM.
02-04-2004, 12:33 PM
#129
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How many people do you know who claim to be skeptical, who pride themselves on their distrust for authority, who like to pretend that they’re wise to the ways of the world—and then, every time there’s a war, they swallow the lies of the government with all the gullibility of a three-year-old child in the lap of a department store Santa Claus? Don’t fall into that trap yourself! Learn to identify and refute official misinformation when you see it. Let’s count down some of the common misconceptions about this war: Lie #5: “We’re not at war with the Afghan people—look, we’re bringing them food!”
Reality: Afghanistan is in the midst of a severe drought which threatens literally millions of people with starvation. Even before the threat of US bombing, the World Food Program (WFP) said that nearly 6 million people were in need of immediate food assistance. When the threat of war caused massive movements of refugees and internally displaced people, the WFP raised that number to 7.5 million. UN agencies were keeping huge numbers of people alive, but the war danger—as well as the US demand that Pakistan seal its border with Afghanistan—caused the WFP to suspend deliveries of wheat flour to the country. We have no idea how many people have already died as a result. Meanwhile, the US dropped 37,000 individually-wrapped packages of food from the sky. You do the math. That’s enough to feed about 37,000 people for one day, in a country where seven and a half million are in danger of starvation. Additionally, the spokesman for an international charity active in Afghanistan told the London Independent that “Random food drops are the worst possible way of delivering food aid. They cause more problems than they solve.” Not the least of which is the fact that Afghanistan has the highest number of unexploded land mines in the world. There are already 10 or 15 mine incidents every day, and with people scrambling into mine-ridden areas to pick up random packages of food dropped from US planes, that number is only going to go up.
Lie #4: “Oil? Who said anything about oil?”
Reality: The Caspian Sea region has potentially the world’s largest oil reserves, likely making Central Asia the next Middle East. The problem is piping it out. Afghanistan occupies a strategic position between the Caspian and the markets of the Indian subcontinent and east Asia. It’s prime territory for building pipelines, which is why the oil company Unocal—as well as the US government—welcomed the Taliban’s rise to power in 1996 as a promising source of “stability.” That turned out to be a pipe dream (so to speak), but people like our Commander-in-Chief and the oil men around him have never given up on the tremendous profit possibilities that Central Asia offers. And if you don’t think such considerations are crossing their minds at this time of crisis, may we suggest a refresher course in The Facts of Life?
Lie #3: “The US is trying to liberate the people of Afghanistan from Taliban tyranny.”
Reality: The US, Russia, and Iran have been aiding a rough coalition of armed groups called the Northern Alliance. The Northern Alliance’s fighters are drawn mainly from ethnic minority groups in Afghanistan who have been persecuted by the Taliban. But their record is also a bloody one. Groups like the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA), which have been fighting against fundamentalism and for democracy in Afghanistan for years, have publicly stated that the fundamentalist gangsters of the Northern Alliance are not an acceptable alternative to the fundamentalist gangsters of the Taliban. No wonder: Human Rights Watch implicates the Northern Alliance in “indiscriminate aerial bombardment and shelling, direct attacks on civilians, summary executions, rape, persecution on the basis of religion or ethnicity, the recruitment and use of children as soldiers, and the use of antipersonnel landmines.” By now everyone knows that Osama bin Laden was among the mujihadin recruited by the CIA to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan. Meet the next generation.
Lie #2: “America is coming together.”
Reality: Tens of thousands of people have been laid off in the airline industry alone. The government quickly responded to the airline industry crisis with a multi-billion-dollar bailout package for the companies in order to keep afloat the profits of shareholders and the salaries of CEOs, but when it came to aiding the thousands of workers laid off, Congressman Dick Armey said that would be contrary to “the American spirit.” Maybe it is. Maybe it’s the “American spirit” to make common working people pay for a crisis and to bear the burdens of an expensive war. But it certainly doesn’t have anything to do with “togetherness.” And the biggest lie of them all.
Reality: Afghanistan is in the midst of a severe drought which threatens literally millions of people with starvation. Even before the threat of US bombing, the World Food Program (WFP) said that nearly 6 million people were in need of immediate food assistance. When the threat of war caused massive movements of refugees and internally displaced people, the WFP raised that number to 7.5 million. UN agencies were keeping huge numbers of people alive, but the war danger—as well as the US demand that Pakistan seal its border with Afghanistan—caused the WFP to suspend deliveries of wheat flour to the country. We have no idea how many people have already died as a result. Meanwhile, the US dropped 37,000 individually-wrapped packages of food from the sky. You do the math. That’s enough to feed about 37,000 people for one day, in a country where seven and a half million are in danger of starvation. Additionally, the spokesman for an international charity active in Afghanistan told the London Independent that “Random food drops are the worst possible way of delivering food aid. They cause more problems than they solve.” Not the least of which is the fact that Afghanistan has the highest number of unexploded land mines in the world. There are already 10 or 15 mine incidents every day, and with people scrambling into mine-ridden areas to pick up random packages of food dropped from US planes, that number is only going to go up.
Lie #4: “Oil? Who said anything about oil?”
Reality: The Caspian Sea region has potentially the world’s largest oil reserves, likely making Central Asia the next Middle East. The problem is piping it out. Afghanistan occupies a strategic position between the Caspian and the markets of the Indian subcontinent and east Asia. It’s prime territory for building pipelines, which is why the oil company Unocal—as well as the US government—welcomed the Taliban’s rise to power in 1996 as a promising source of “stability.” That turned out to be a pipe dream (so to speak), but people like our Commander-in-Chief and the oil men around him have never given up on the tremendous profit possibilities that Central Asia offers. And if you don’t think such considerations are crossing their minds at this time of crisis, may we suggest a refresher course in The Facts of Life?
Lie #3: “The US is trying to liberate the people of Afghanistan from Taliban tyranny.”
Reality: The US, Russia, and Iran have been aiding a rough coalition of armed groups called the Northern Alliance. The Northern Alliance’s fighters are drawn mainly from ethnic minority groups in Afghanistan who have been persecuted by the Taliban. But their record is also a bloody one. Groups like the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA), which have been fighting against fundamentalism and for democracy in Afghanistan for years, have publicly stated that the fundamentalist gangsters of the Northern Alliance are not an acceptable alternative to the fundamentalist gangsters of the Taliban. No wonder: Human Rights Watch implicates the Northern Alliance in “indiscriminate aerial bombardment and shelling, direct attacks on civilians, summary executions, rape, persecution on the basis of religion or ethnicity, the recruitment and use of children as soldiers, and the use of antipersonnel landmines.” By now everyone knows that Osama bin Laden was among the mujihadin recruited by the CIA to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan. Meet the next generation.
Lie #2: “America is coming together.”
Reality: Tens of thousands of people have been laid off in the airline industry alone. The government quickly responded to the airline industry crisis with a multi-billion-dollar bailout package for the companies in order to keep afloat the profits of shareholders and the salaries of CEOs, but when it came to aiding the thousands of workers laid off, Congressman Dick Armey said that would be contrary to “the American spirit.” Maybe it is. Maybe it’s the “American spirit” to make common working people pay for a crisis and to bear the burdens of an expensive war. But it certainly doesn’t have anything to do with “togetherness.” And the biggest lie of them all.
02-04-2004, 12:33 PM
#130
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Lie #1: “It’s possible to win a ‘war against terrorism.’ ”
Reality: Terrorism is a tactic, not a political or social force in and of itself. Anyone can use it, and the idea that you can wage a “war” against it is as dishonest as the idea behind the “War on Drugs.” The use of food as a political weapon, indiscriminate aerial bombardment, and the arming of gangsterish groups of religious fanatics all count as “terrorism” by any reasonable definition of the word, and the United States has long employed all of them—and more. This war is really about sordid material interests and power (see especially Lies numbers 2 and 4, above), and in defense of these interests the US is prepared to shift the label “terrorist” as it sees fit, to apply to all manner of dissident political movements and not just marginal bands of fanatics like bin Laden’s al-Qa’ida. Conversely, it’s willing to call its own terrorists “freedom fighters” (see Lie number 3 above). Maybe some of them will get transformed into “terrorists” again in a few years. It’s a sick game and a charade, and the government is manipulating the very real grief and anger of the people of the United States after the September 11 atrocities to get us all to fall for it again. Don’t believe them for a second. “Though men now possess the power to dominate and exploit every corner of the natural world, nothing in that fact implies that they have the right or the need to do so.”
Reality: Terrorism is a tactic, not a political or social force in and of itself. Anyone can use it, and the idea that you can wage a “war” against it is as dishonest as the idea behind the “War on Drugs.” The use of food as a political weapon, indiscriminate aerial bombardment, and the arming of gangsterish groups of religious fanatics all count as “terrorism” by any reasonable definition of the word, and the United States has long employed all of them—and more. This war is really about sordid material interests and power (see especially Lies numbers 2 and 4, above), and in defense of these interests the US is prepared to shift the label “terrorist” as it sees fit, to apply to all manner of dissident political movements and not just marginal bands of fanatics like bin Laden’s al-Qa’ida. Conversely, it’s willing to call its own terrorists “freedom fighters” (see Lie number 3 above). Maybe some of them will get transformed into “terrorists” again in a few years. It’s a sick game and a charade, and the government is manipulating the very real grief and anger of the people of the United States after the September 11 atrocities to get us all to fall for it again. Don’t believe them for a second. “Though men now possess the power to dominate and exploit every corner of the natural world, nothing in that fact implies that they have the right or the need to do so.”
02-04-2004, 12:41 PM
#131
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Originally posted by Sisqocqk
The air campaigns resulted in a LOT of innocent casualties and you know what...shiet happens and it's all part of war. If the people of this country weren't in a big damn hurry for results then the military could have managed to achieve even MORE with a SURGICAL ground attack with almost zero innocent casualties... and yes there's such a thing for caves and ground personel because i helped write an SOP for it for a couple teams inculding my own team!!!! Believe it or not but a team of 6 trained/motivated men can select targets and not kill any innocent people after they unleash CS gas in the middle of the night with NOD's on.
But did you really think that was going to happen!? Hell no! because it would have taken way too long and the impatient people of this country would have said "what's taking so long, what's taking so long... are we there yet, are we there yet!?" This would have put Bush and members of the whitehouse in a equal/worse situation. They would be frowned upon because the war in afghanistan (im talking about Operation Anaconda not the current peacekeeping mission) wasn't producing any results fast enough.
A surgical ground/CQC/MOUT attack may have taken FOREVER but it would have produced VERY little friendly casualties. Then you know what would have happened? Bush would start to worry about his next 4 years and getting elected again when he still has the surgical war going on in afghanistan that's 2 years old yet little to show for it (they take a lot of time). So he took a BIG gamble by crossing his fingers in hope the innocent would be spared, dropped the bombs to get this done faster and still has people breathing down his neck...you just CAN'T win when you're the man in charge.
Lastly, im glad you'd grab a rifle if it came to that point and im glad you support the servicemen and women because they have no say in the matter...they'd have to listen to mickey mouse if he was the president.
Eric
The air campaigns resulted in a LOT of innocent casualties and you know what...shiet happens and it's all part of war. If the people of this country weren't in a big damn hurry for results then the military could have managed to achieve even MORE with a SURGICAL ground attack with almost zero innocent casualties... and yes there's such a thing for caves and ground personel because i helped write an SOP for it for a couple teams inculding my own team!!!! Believe it or not but a team of 6 trained/motivated men can select targets and not kill any innocent people after they unleash CS gas in the middle of the night with NOD's on.
But did you really think that was going to happen!? Hell no! because it would have taken way too long and the impatient people of this country would have said "what's taking so long, what's taking so long... are we there yet, are we there yet!?" This would have put Bush and members of the whitehouse in a equal/worse situation. They would be frowned upon because the war in afghanistan (im talking about Operation Anaconda not the current peacekeeping mission) wasn't producing any results fast enough.
A surgical ground/CQC/MOUT attack may have taken FOREVER but it would have produced VERY little friendly casualties. Then you know what would have happened? Bush would start to worry about his next 4 years and getting elected again when he still has the surgical war going on in afghanistan that's 2 years old yet little to show for it (they take a lot of time). So he took a BIG gamble by crossing his fingers in hope the innocent would be spared, dropped the bombs to get this done faster and still has people breathing down his neck...you just CAN'T win when you're the man in charge.
Lastly, im glad you'd grab a rifle if it came to that point and im glad you support the servicemen and women because they have no say in the matter...they'd have to listen to mickey mouse if he was the president.
Eric
Oh and what makes a good solider is how he executes orders that he knows are wrong. And i agree even if micky was the CEO of the US the soliders would have to follow his orders. That doesnt mean that they couldnt voice their dissent with his policies and or actions.
That sir is the american way.
02-04-2004, 01:27 PM
#132
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Originally posted by dr3d1zzl3
blah i agree with you, but u can win when you are in charge. First rule would be to not lie to your country. Second rule would be not to act like a tryannical *******. Third rule would be to not act in behalf of your financial interests but of your moral and ethical interests.
Oh and what makes a good solider is how he executes orders that he knows are wrong. And i agree even if micky was the CEO of the US the soliders would have to follow his orders. That doesnt mean that they couldnt voice their dissent with his policies and or actions.
That sir is the american way.
blah i agree with you, but u can win when you are in charge. First rule would be to not lie to your country. Second rule would be not to act like a tryannical *******. Third rule would be to not act in behalf of your financial interests but of your moral and ethical interests.
Oh and what makes a good solider is how he executes orders that he knows are wrong. And i agree even if micky was the CEO of the US the soliders would have to follow his orders. That doesnt mean that they couldnt voice their dissent with his policies and or actions.
That sir is the american way.
Eventhough a lot of people think you're an *** dre you're actully very smart and i agree with most everything you say....not everything
The beauty of the military is the fact sheit rolls down hill. from the President down to the Cherry E1 PVT. I can tell you right now that soldiers want to do the job they trained for. If they never get that opprotunity then the feel like the 4th string benchwarmer.
Soldiers don't really care about the issues and politics involved because they have no say in what happens (even if they really did care it wouldn't matter)...they have a enlistment period of "x" amount of years. If they're told to strap a target to their back and run into baghdad they may question it SILENTLY but they'll do it ASAFP. If they don't they'll get ucmj action, loss of pay and a beating.
If i ever had anyone in my team question me i'd destroy them with 6 days without sleep and meaningless stupid tasks like exercises, cleaning something 100 times etc. until they saw eye to eye with me. that's what civilians tend to forget. and that's the military way.
Last edited by Salty; 02-04-2004 at 01:38 PM.
02-04-2004, 02:20 PM
#134
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
dr3 if you are going to cut and paste, at least provide a link to your source, otherwise it's what they call plagiarism.
dr3 if you are going to cut and paste, at least provide a link to your source, otherwise it's what they call plagiarism.
thanks for catchign that forgot to do it (it wouldnt all fit in one post.
umm now i have to find the site again.
(i didnt write the posts about lies vs reality it was taken from some college website)
02-04-2004, 02:26 PM
#135
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Originally posted by Sisqocqk
Eventhough a lot of people think you're an *** dre you're actully very smart and i agree with most everything you say....not everything
The beauty of the military is the fact sheit rolls down hill. from the President down to the Cherry E1 PVT. I can tell you right now that soldiers want to do the job they trained for. If they never get that opprotunity then the feel like the 4th string benchwarmer.
Soldiers don't really care about the issues and politics involved because they have no say in what happens (even if they really did care it wouldn't matter)...they have a enlistment period of "x" amount of years. If they're told to strap a target to their back and run into baghdad they may question it SILENTLY but they'll do it ASAFP. If they don't they'll get ucmj action, loss of pay and a beating.
If i ever had anyone in my team question me i'd destroy them with 6 days without sleep and meaningless stupid tasks like exercises, cleaning something 100 times etc. until they saw eye to eye with me. that's what civilians tend to forget. and that's the military way.
Eventhough a lot of people think you're an *** dre you're actully very smart and i agree with most everything you say....not everything
The beauty of the military is the fact sheit rolls down hill. from the President down to the Cherry E1 PVT. I can tell you right now that soldiers want to do the job they trained for. If they never get that opprotunity then the feel like the 4th string benchwarmer.
Soldiers don't really care about the issues and politics involved because they have no say in what happens (even if they really did care it wouldn't matter)...they have a enlistment period of "x" amount of years. If they're told to strap a target to their back and run into baghdad they may question it SILENTLY but they'll do it ASAFP. If they don't they'll get ucmj action, loss of pay and a beating.
If i ever had anyone in my team question me i'd destroy them with 6 days without sleep and meaningless stupid tasks like exercises, cleaning something 100 times etc. until they saw eye to eye with me. that's what civilians tend to forget. and that's the military way.
Just because your a solider doesnt mean you cant think for your self. It just means that you have to take an order and execute it with no regards to your own thoughts or logic process. That is what it means to be a solider. Granted the people above you maybe the most incompitent *******s ever to walk the face of the earth. But your duty is to take orders and execute them, not ponder them for moral rights and wrongs. And that is where alot of people get screwed up no blame at all should be placed on our troops (unless they deserve it for individual acts) the blame should be firmly placed on those in power. And that is where alot of the "troops" get confused as well, they see people like jason and myself questioning what those in power are doing and then all they can think of is "how un american, how un patriotic, how pinkie this commie that blah blah blah". And all we see is a mindless worker bee speweing out thoughtless drivle that is sooooo obviously tainted by his or her line of work. Just because your a worker bee doesnt mean that you cant think for your self. It just means that you have a job to do how ever right or wrong.