Wealth Redistribution at it's Finest.
Registered User
iTrader: (12)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 18,369
From: Reno, NV
Car Info: 1993/2000/2001 GF4 mostly red
A. motivate poor students to study more/harder
2. provide better teaching methods to said students
r. increase parental oversight of each child's educational process
If I gave you a million dollars, tell me precisely how you would spend every dollar, and how that would improve "quality of education" at the school you were spending it at.
Registered User
iTrader: (12)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 18,369
From: Reno, NV
Car Info: 1993/2000/2001 GF4 mostly red
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,312
From: UCIrvine
Car Info: '05 Crystal Grey Metallic WRX Sport Wagon
The bottom line is that it's worked before. Why wouldn't it work in NY? The burden of proof is on those who say it won't work this time, since it has worked before.
I'm sorry it hurts you that others will get a chance you didn't...I feel very bad for you since society and the gov't left you all on your own to pull yourself up by your bootstraps...clearly you are much better people than those in NY that are living in poverty and who's children get crappy education. But not everyone is as supremely excellant as you, and just because they aren't doesn't mean they (and their children) should be doomed to continue the cycle of poverty and miseducation...
I'm sorry it hurts you that others will get a chance you didn't...I feel very bad for you since society and the gov't left you all on your own to pull yourself up by your bootstraps...clearly you are much better people than those in NY that are living in poverty and who's children get crappy education. But not everyone is as supremely excellant as you, and just because they aren't doesn't mean they (and their children) should be doomed to continue the cycle of poverty and miseducation...
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,312
From: UCIrvine
Car Info: '05 Crystal Grey Metallic WRX Sport Wagon
That's speculation, and letting a few bad examples taint the whole idea. Sure there are people who take advantage. There are those types on all levels...corporations cheating taxes, ENRON type scandals, whitewater type scandals, robber barren crap...judging by those things, capitalism just doesn't work. But it does, because over all it's a solid system. And overall, many types of social welfare do work. I agree that some forms of it are worse than others, but this system NY is trying is based on things that have worked before. As far as I can tell, the entire argument against welfare is "I didn't get it/ need it therefore noone should." That's a pretty lame argument.
You're not getting the point then. If this "distribution" went into to something otherthan cash, for example, a special savings account, a trust account, etc., where it could not be easily liquidated for something such as a bottle of Kristal, then I would be a bit more for it. But handing people "free" money is not going to solve anything, nor point them in the right direction. If all I had to do was show up to a half hour - hour long parent-teacher conference for $25, you're damn right I would be there. But would the people care, that's where the big factor comes in.
Let's break it down in the most primal way possible. What make a pack of wolves hunt for food? Hunger... What causes one of the largets migrations in the world? Thirst. What encourages people to get a job, feed their families, ect? Government handouts. Wait; that can't be right.
Thread Starter
iClub Silver Vendor
iTrader: (25)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 15,494
From: Participating in some Anarchy!
Car Info: 2005 LGT wagon
The bottom line is that it's worked before. Why wouldn't it work in NY? The burden of proof is on those who say it won't work this time, since it has worked before.
I'm sorry it hurts you that others will get a chance you didn't...I feel very bad for you since society and the gov't left you all on your own to pull yourself up by your bootstraps...clearly you are much better people than those in NY that are living in poverty and who's children get crappy education. But not everyone is as supremely excellant as you, and just because they aren't doesn't mean they (and their children) should be doomed to continue the cycle of poverty and miseducation...
I'm sorry it hurts you that others will get a chance you didn't...I feel very bad for you since society and the gov't left you all on your own to pull yourself up by your bootstraps...clearly you are much better people than those in NY that are living in poverty and who's children get crappy education. But not everyone is as supremely excellant as you, and just because they aren't doesn't mean they (and their children) should be doomed to continue the cycle of poverty and miseducation...
You say the burden of proof is on me.
Well, try this:
Both of your examples are from cash infusions into Third World Countries, which the US isn't(yet).
The US is a developed country, that contributes greatly to the world as a whole. Imagine what the world would be like without financial handouts we provide the rest of the world.
Third World countries, in general, contribute nothing in the form of goods & services.
I cannot remember one year in my nearly 40 yrs of life that Africa or Latin America did not have problems with incredible poverty or famine or daught or....
I do not have the inclination to figure out how many billions, if not trillions, of dollars that we have given out over these last 40 yrs to developing countries.
Yet the same problems persist.
Year after year.
Obviously, spending money is not the correct/whole answer.
Tying this (rather briefly I admit) together, handing out money to those that lack sufficient self motivation will not solve the problem of truancy, teen age pregnancy, bad teeth, etc.
I'm all for assistance programs that promote personnal betterment & self sufficiency/reliance.
I'm completely against any probram that teaches, promotes, encourages dependency on the gov't.
Kinda like the saying "give a man a fish...."
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,312
From: UCIrvine
Car Info: '05 Crystal Grey Metallic WRX Sport Wagon
First off, you didn't give any proof of a failure of this type of system, just more speculation. Second, I ask again, if we HADN'T given all that money how much worse would it be? Yes, this is certainly speculation as well...but it's a question to think about.
I completely agree with the give a man a fish idea. That's why I think this idea is decent; it encourages education at a very young age, which to me is teaching all those little kids who benefit from this in NYC to fish.
VIP Member
iTrader: (17)
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 22,776
From: Sunnyvale, CA
Car Info: '13 BRZ Limited / '02 WRX
I agree that the program doesn't seem like a good one, but I'd definitely be careful about referring to poverty stricken people as people that "have no desire to help themselves"
Personally I would feel worse off if I found out that my parents only came to a parent-teacher conference because of the money, or took me to the Dentist because of the money. Then when the Dentist says I need braces, or something, and the parent says F*** that I can't afford it. It would bring me down.
Where are the kids benefiting again?
VIP Member
iTrader: (17)
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 22,776
From: Sunnyvale, CA
Car Info: '13 BRZ Limited / '02 WRX
Personally I would feel worse off if I found out that my parents only came to a parent-teacher conference because of the money, or took me to the Dentist because of the money. Then when the Dentist says I need braces, or something, and the parent says F*** that I can't afford it. It would bring me down.
thats where I see a flaw too, in no way does it make the parents follow through with anything. Also, I didn't read everything, but wheres all this money coming from?
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,312
From: UCIrvine
Car Info: '05 Crystal Grey Metallic WRX Sport Wagon
You are assuming that the parents who will show up won't be swayed at all by what they are exposed to at the conferences, or at the Dr's or wherever. Even if some aren't, and continue to just use the money, you don't think SOME will be more attentive to their children's needs? I mean...the proof is already documented, these programs DO work to get parents involved. So, like I said, proove to me that the majority of this money will go to drugs and liquor; otherwise, this program has a huge chance of success.
Oh, and by the way, Mexico and Brazil aren't really third world countries...they're just not as affluent as we are:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_by_GDP_(PPP))
Oh, and by the way, Mexico and Brazil aren't really third world countries...they're just not as affluent as we are:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_by_GDP_(PPP))
Last edited by MVWRX; Jun 22, 2007 at 11:37 AM.