Hmmm.
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I should know that what your guess, yet unproven, is correct? I'll call B.S. right now.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/23/we...b535a6&ei=5070

<snip>THE DEPRAVITY DEEPENS Two days after the first guilty plea in the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal, yet more damning evidence was revealed by The Washington Post on Friday. Hundreds of new images and previously secret sworn statements from Iraqis held at the prison presented a new and even more harrowing tableau of sexual humiliation and religious intimidation at the hands of American soldiers.

Prisoners were reportedly ridden like animals, repeatedly groped and forced to renounce their religion.

"Someone else asked me, 'Do you believe in anything?' " said one prisoner, Ameen Sa'eed Al-Sheikh, in a statement given to military investigators on Jan. 16. "I said to him, 'I believe in Allah.' So he said, 'But I believe in torture, and I will torture you.'



I'm not a veteran, at least I don't consider myself one. I never served overseas.

I'm also not the one defending torture practices.

 

Maybe I'm a cold SOB, but that description does not constitute torture to me, a violation of the UCMJ...yes, degrading...yes...torture....no

 

I was responding to the assinine claim that the prisoners' religion was respected.

I do not believe that is torture, though I might feel differently if my entire life was based on the koran.

 

Ok I read half the post in here. And I am throughly disgusted by how half of you view torture.

A. Torture DOES NOT WORK in getting "real" information ask any integrator.

B. How does this look to the rest of the world? We are no longer the moral leaders we tried to portray ourselves as. Beyond that it legitimizes a lot of claims those extremist have been making. We are becoming what they said we were. And that to me is disgusting to the very core of my being. Not only that it is making more recruits for them everyday.

C. An eye for an eye does not cause progress to continue. It leads to backward mentality.

D. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...110101644.html If that doesn't scare you I don't know what will.

E. We are all human beings all of you for torture need to step back for a second and look at it from a different point of view. The point of view of the person being detained. Doesn't matter what they do, ie Oaf's example, for example would you jump of a bridge if your friend did? What does matter is what WE hold as standards. Just because they have lower ones does NOT mean we should lower ours.

All in all I'm really disappointed in half of you. The road you people want to follow is beyond comprehension to me. And this nation was the leader on human rights, ha, pathetic what you people are representing as American ideals.

 

Where did you get this information from? I know a handful at all levels of the intelligence community. Torture, when done correctly, definitely has a useful purpose.

As I said before, the proof is in the fact it's always existed in the intelligence gathering doctrine of the USA. Even special US groups use it in other parts of the world other than US soil when abolutely required (usually for PIR).

It's not a tactic to be used lightly. The only way I can see using it is on someone that's been in captivity for less than a week. Unless you need to tap the detainee's unique knowledge of something that has surfaced back to the top.

 

psychological torture works......And is far more reliable than old school physical torture....especially when done right...ask the Israelis

 

Maybe I should re-phrase, it is NOT the most effective way of gathering information since it usually is very un-reliable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture Not only that I believe it is NOT seen as helpful in the intelligence community. In fact you both need to study up on psychology if you believe it works. Also isn't Mathew a integrator maybe he can shed some light on it.

Also you both ignore the rest of my points which are even more valid than the first one. The fact of that matter is that both of you are disgusting to me. You have lowered yourself to the level like them. I find that repulsive and disturbing. Good job though holding up those American morals and such.

Oh and Salty because it was used in the past does NOT make it effective. I don't see how you can even believe that? That is FAR from proof that it is effective.

 

Then what is an effective means of gathering intelligence when time matters? Let's talk.

 

Torture sure isn't one of them. By the time it really matters what do you think that individual will tell you if you have a gun to his head? I'll put my money on anything to keep himself alive.

 

Yet somehow I still sleep a night

 

You do realize that the majority of questions that interogators ask they already know the answers to? It's very easy to see when you're getting good intel and when you're not. You don't know the first thing about interogation so how about you quit proclaiming you know all these indefinite facts about it. Until you propose a better method or can prove to me that it's ineffective (which you can't) then quit all the speculative hear-say assurances you seem to be so well informed on.