MVWRX

iTrader: (1)

Looks like the admin wants to have it's terrorist and torture him too...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051103/...secret_prisons


Uh...so they are against torture for ANY reason (because it's against our values), BUT they want to be able to exempt certain agents from the rule that says torture is banned...interesting.

Salty

iTrader: (14)

Ehhh Whatever... I'm 110% for it.

We need to have CI agents do these things to certain people. Counter Intelligence is a major staple to the intelligence gathering community. Those that denounce it are the first to complain how intelligence isn't gathered fast enough and are the exact reason intelligence lacks. This is fact. You cannot treat these people like frequent flyer customers when PIR and time is of the essence. It’s impossible.

Complain and shrug your shoulders all you want on this one because that's the way it needs to be, unfortunately. If you need to literally split a few skulls (in this case non-innocent skulls) to cure cancer then so be it… I never understood why people (mainly those that lean left) are so opposed to the torturing of people that would gladly chop off their families head in cold blood? Sure it's unethical and it's a shame it has to come to this, but this should be one of those issues that people simply accept as they sit comfortably by their fire and television. But no, they’d much rather complain on this issue and on the issue of weak intelligence.

I won't argue this topic with those that disagree with me because the fact of the matter is you're not involved in CI and rightfully so.

ipozestu

iTrader: (18)

Agreed, DO what ever is necessary to protect this country from another attack on its shores.

lojasmo

You realize that these people have not been convicted, right?

Do you believe in the concept of innocent until proven guilty?

Salty

iTrader: (14)

Alas, one of the many double edged swords is unsheathed. So I’ll go ahead and answer your question with another idiotic one...

You realize that convictions take time, right?

Face it, even though there's an extremely small percent that have been wrongfully imprisoned which I admit is a shame and a great injustice, it's a small price to pay for the overwhelming majority that's clearly involved in the anti-western, pro Iraqi anarchy cause. Even if the USA did the bare minimum by throwing a blanket-conviction over the insurgents, you wouldn't be satisfied unless every swinging dick was convicted in court. So why even bother with these godfearing *******s?

Convictions have no place in the gathering of intelligence from an insurgency or terrorists. Why don't we just attach lawyers and judges to team sized combat elements so we can convict insurgents, represent them, and charge them while their cronies set-up a far ambush down the road? Because thanks to the now micro managed ***** footing that didn't exist during WWII, competent, intelligent and sympathetic commanders cannot squeeze a drop out of their dicks without written permission.

Ethical or unethical, right or wrong, up or down, left or right, black or white, where in the hell do you stand in the dog eat dog world you refuse to acknowledge?

I won’t make another rebuttal for anymore posts directed toward me in this thread.

Unregistered

Ahh so we should just ignore due process. Good one! Our morals sure shine through!

So you admit some might be imprisoned wrongly? So what you are saying is, if you got caputured then sent to jail for no reason you would be cool with that? Because after all its serving the great good. Im sure that would fly well with you.

You have go to be kidding me. You can't really believe this?! You actually think its fine and looks well if we don't atleast make the attempt to do legitimate trials? Yeah you sure where right we went in to Iraq for the Iraqies!

Then don't make a post if you don't want people to point out how your point of view is flawed.

psoper

Just don't complain if you wind up being tortured by anyone else, because we are the ones who decided it was OK.

lojasmo

The fact is that a vast majority of torture victims in gitmo, abu ghraib, and the other black facilities have never been tried or convicted of a crime.

The geneva convention specifically curtails torture of prisoners of war.

svxr8dr

iTrader: (1)

Too bad these guys are not covered by the Geneva convention as POW's. Thanks the diety of your choice that ACLU lovers like yourself are not the ones directing interrogations of these people.

svxr8dr

iTrader: (1)

I believe in due process for U.S. citizens and even that ends if you renounce your citzenship or take up arms against your country. Why is that so hard to understand?

Salty

iTrader: (14)

I'll play...

Why even bother trying to argue with someone that continuously relies on ad hominem fallacies? If you’re going to attempt to argue with me then at least make an effort to wipe the Liberal mud off your shoes.

Funny how semantics workout against the insurgency and terrorists in this case, huh lojasmo? Thing is, operatives who's sole purpose in intelligence gathering is to do bad things to bad people have existed in the days of Clinton, Jimmy Carter and beyond without question. It will continue to exist this way regardless of measure.

They will always exist to fulfill a job that is very necessary and very unpopular. I like to think of them as New York City iron workers working hundreds of feet above the busy streets. Although it's an extremely necessary job that many people could do if they absolutely must, hardly anyone is willing to do it for a number of reasons beyond being too frail and scared for a very psychologically and physically demanding job. Many may even frown on the idea of building vertically, using resources, supporting money hungry corporations, tobacco spitting workers above Manhattan, etc. But like counter intelligence, building that sky-scrapper is very necessary for our infrastructure. As unfortunate and unethical as it may be, you cannot have your cake and it eat regarding CI and the immediate security of our nation.

Fixed.

FW Motorsports