gpatmac

iTrader: (3)

This may be WTLW, but I've never read it before.

1. There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during January.... In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January. That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq .

2. When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state the following:


a. FDR...led us into World War II.

b. Germany never attacked us: Japan did.
From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.

c. Truman...finished that war and started one in Korea. North Korea never attacked us.
From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year.

d. John F. Kennedy. ..started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.

e. Johnson...turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.

f. Clinton...went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent. Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

g. In the years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation.

We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chapaquiddick

It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!!

Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB! The Military morale is high! The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to realize the facts.

STi_or_EVO

It tells me to never live in Detroit ..

VIBEELEVEN

iTrader: (2)

Good perspective Pat, I'm sure time will tell a different story.
Also, we didn't have michael moore and all the idiots that revere his movies and anti American propaganda as gospel for points 2a-2f.

gpatmac

iTrader: (3)

I stole it, but it is a reinforcement of what my views were all along.

Personally, it tears my heart out everytime I hear of the loss of a soldier. I read the Army times every week in order to see the newly departed's faces and see if I know any.

Bottom line, though. We signed up to potentially put our lives in harms way for a greater good, or best case, to put an insurgents life in harms way.

When I explain it to future soldiers or potential soldiers or their parents, I try to put it into perspective, much like the 1st post does. How many people die daily from car accidents or drunk driving? How many from household accidents? Those are shameful, wasteful deaths. Not to justify what we're doing over in the mideast, but at least we have the best intentions in mind to make the world a better place and to try and greatly reduce innocents' suffering.

Salty

iTrader: (14)

This is a point I’ve tried to stress many times over.

When the Bloods and Crips were going strong during the days of Sanyika Shakur, nobody lost a wink of sleep in nearby Beverly Hills or surrounding Los Angeles suburbs. Hell, hardly anyone lost sleep in South Central unless they were somehow negatively affected by their immediate surroundings. The yearly murder statistics for these areas during the late 80's and 90's averaged at 250-350 per year. That's a monthly average of 25+ murders. Meanwhile, other major metropolitan areas like New York and Chicago were anywhere from 300-400+ per year! Yet people still lived their lives as if they're oblivious to their surroundings.

US troops get hit by group of 50 insurgents with a car bomb and mortars (wow... grenades that get shot from a tube) an most everyone on the left is lordy, lordy, lordy! Although it’s tragic that American Soldiers lost their lives, I’m willing to bet those up-to-date on current events here knew about it before a fraction of the Iraqi population did. I bet a huge percentage of them still have no idea.

EricDaRed81

iTrader: (10)

I totally understand what you guys are saying. There have been many times in our history by many different leaders where America has entered into war for the wrong reasons. (WWII wasn't one of them we had to fight that war)

But does that mean that this war is any better? This administration lead us into this war under the "understanding" that there were WMD's and iraq was a "direct" threat to us. Bush isn't the only president to do this, we get that, but that doesn't make it right.

Salty

iTrader: (14)

Fair enough.

I don't think that war is any better. In fact, I think the very idea of war on any front is a bad idea. What I think will be better are the ends. If the ends justify the means then I think it'll go down as a worthwhile decision... WMD or not. There won’t be any meaningful WMD argument from the left whatsoever. If current attempts in the Middle East are even remotely successful then the WMD assumption, pretense (or whatever the hell you want to call it) will go down as one of the most worthwhile intelligence flukes ever.

I'm not only talking about Iraq (which is coming along nicely). I'm talking about Afghanistan (new government is breaking barriers), Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Israel and Palestine.

Everything needs to push forward. It’s seems to have slowed down recently and I’m hoping it’s because of Schiavo and Pope John Paul II reporting. We'll see....

EricDaRed81

iTrader: (10)

Yeah the media really latched on to those and the MJ trial.

ftnssn

I agree with most everything on their but to compare this to FDR and Truman that shows some real ignorance. Are you saying we should have left Germany alone, even though the rest of the world was at our doorstep to help them?

Salty

iTrader: (14)

It's part of the leftist rhetoric. A lot of them feel that we shouldn't be in Iraq because it's not in our best interest and that they never posed an immediate threat to us. This was one of Jeremy Hinzman's arguments as of recently in Canada that failed.

Then when that argument fails they grasp on the WMD argument that's losing its relevance every passing day. To argue otherwise makes you looks very self-centered and selfish.

MVWRX

iTrader: (1)

A lot of those are good points. But a statement like this:

"Germany never attacked us: Japan did."

Has clearly been misused. Correct, Germany never attacked us. But they had a publicaly known alliance with Japan. So for all intensive perposes, they were the same enemy.
When little bits of propaganda like this find their way into arguments that other wise would be very valid, the efficacy of the whole piece is diminished.
Not trying to start anything with this post, but the problem is very similar to the reasons many people on this board dismiss propaganda from leftists like Michael Myers.


Edit: Whoops, we all know I meant Michael Moore...I watched a countdown about scary movies last night, guess I got a little mixed up...

VIBEELEVEN

iTrader: (2)

I totally agre with you, when I read 2a and 2b I started to wonder.
Just for record about the whole alliance arguement: we may not have been fighting in europe before pearl harbor but we were giving the UK jets and supplies, wich could be classified as an alliance.