Salty

iTrader: (14)

Saw some statistics from CNN two evenings ago that said insurgent attacks (includes individual battles and bombings) has been steadily decreasing over the last year. They also said that they have significantly decreased since the election. The report suggested that Iraqi participation with the U.S. has been key. Commanders credit the fact more and more Iraqi's are coming forward with intelligence on their whereabouts now than ever before.

US, UK, Israeli-style armed forces have so thoroughly dominated these arab armies and untrained insurgents that one might be tempted to ascribe a racial or cultural basis for it. And maybe there is a cultural basis in that the Western ideology is the foundation for a competency-based military.

It's really no surprise. We've all seen footage of the insurgents shooting the MG or AK47 from the hip. If you paused your tivo and pressed a protractor to the barrel on your TV screen you'd think they were duck hunting.

What made people think that fighting these insurgents would have been too hard? I kept hearing about a guerrilla type insurgency. Sure. But the difference with this insurgency as compared to Vietnam is that you're in the middle of the ****ing desert. Even if they fled to a building they'd be sitting ducks. It would be like a civilian hostage situation without the negotiation. We'd clear the building and either put a controled pair in his chest or send him on a POW vacation. It's relatively easy to pick-out your target as they carelessly aim in the middle of the open. This is just one petty observation I’ve had among many.

The only way they can possibly put a dent in our side is by carbomb. And recent statistics show that these are decreasing too. I'm not economics major but maybe it's because they're running out of numbers?

Here we are training a competent Iraqi Military with our Special Forces, Drill Sergeants and NCO’s. Some of these people I happen to be good friends with. As of recently, I have a hard time separating our men from those newly trained Iraqis in uniform. What really makes me surprised is that the overall numbers of these men seems to be staggering. Footage seems to show a significant amount of Iraqi Guardsmen present with Allied forces on every occasion.

What does everyone think about this?

Especially the Western style foothold we’re establishing?

MVWRX

iTrader: (1)

I agree with a lot of your post, Salty, but to make a conversation out of it: what happens if we train a great western style army in Iraq, and then in 5-10 yeras we have to go to war against the very same army we created? At one point, we were on Saddams side...what happens if Iraq goes back to the 'dark side' again? It seems to me like we really need to build up an Iraqi national allegience to western ideals more than just build a western army...and I'd bet that convincing muslims to agree with christian/jewish/american ideals is not as easy as training soldiers and policemen.

Salty

iTrader: (14)

It's possible but not likely. Because at the same time we're establishing a Western style government (democracy).

Salty

iTrader: (14)

There's tons of evidence to suggest this. Even a majority of Iranians would hop on this wagon if they had the chance. I even dwell on one of the many reasons why in the first paragraph of the first post. Iraqis don't come forward with intelligence on insurgents whereabouts unless they believe. If they were neutral to this then they'd say nothing. If they were against us then they'd give wrong intelligence to screw us over... but this isn’t the case.

Other major criterion are based on participation in the new government and it's military. There was a huge surge of volunteers to the Iraqi Guard after the election. This is fact. The number of trained Iraqi Soldiers is ~60,000 and growing everyday with more volunteers. Thing is, most all of these men are already gaining valuable experience from the insurgency. Whether they are in direct contact or supporting those men who are. This experience is only going to instill their opposition towards the insurgency and establish common ground with the USA and other Western Societies. Why on earth do you think the insurgents and terrorists are attacking in desperation?

subaruguru

What's it look like we're doing? Spending lots of money building the country up, training its military (constant contact with US forces in the meantime)....those soldiers and policeman ARE Muslims.

The hardest part will be convincing Hillary's half of the country to stick with the program for as long as it takes.

MVWRX

iTrader: (1)

We're setting up military, police, and government. What I'm saying is that I hope our attempts at schools, roads, hospitals, fire stations, etc...work as well or better than our attempt at installing a western military, other wise why the hell would the Iraqi people want a western military, police force, and government. Yes, we are 'building up the country' according to both gov'ts. But have you seen any footage of schools/factories/powerplants/construction sites flourishing? Because all I've seen is military actions, police training vids, and the like. I'm hoping that's just the media's slant...but I have a suspicion that the 'rebuilding' of Iraq hasn't even seen a cornerstone layed yet.

Salty

iTrader: (14)

It is media slant. For example, if you search for information on road development you’ll get a lot of stories with “roadside bomb” even though a lot of good has been done.

Schools have come full swing since 2003 and the Education Minister says everything will be 100% by 2006-2007. This includes additional school, a new curriculum on Islam, the history of Islam and tons of subjects Saddam forbid.

Construction of additional roads has been in full swing from contractors and the Army Corps of Engineers. There's never been so much paved roads than there is now. Not to mention all this Construction is creating additional jobs.

Hundreds of small/large business owners from Iraq have come to the USA to learn from established business owners. There's a ton of things happening that you don't ever hear about. This includes government support and support from charitable organizations and private sectors (http://www.portaliraq.com/index.php?...164372d6dd086a).

Instead of me listing all of them why don't you find evidence of us going in the wrong direction since "shock and awe." This includes every avenue you've mentioned. I bet you have a hard time finding one. Be sure to look at the dates of the articles you find before posting.

MVWRX

iTrader: (1)

I'm gonna hapily conceed this one. There is certainly a lack of info on the civil-front of the rebuilding of Iraq. The only info I can find is put forth by the companies doing the building, whom I am reluctant to trust, but since it's the only place I can find anything at all about it I'll have to trust them and assume that the schools, roads, etc are going well.

dub2w

what? you mean you cant trust the solid info at www.halliburton.com???

when it comes to issues such as this, i am pretty much in the dark. however, i have heard from reliable (and reasonable) friends / colleagues that substantial building up of Iraq's infrastructure has taken place