kYLEMtnCRUZr

iTrader: (6)

You believe there is no such thing, that is fine.

But for the sake of your question, you are pretending there is a "god". You are asking "What kind of god..."

So tell me why you wont accept the fact, for the sake of argument, that there is an evil force of equal/greater/lesser power?

That is your answer as far as i know. I mean it's a simple question youre asking, you just seem to have a brick wall smack dab in the middle of your head.

kYLEMtnCRUZr

iTrader: (6)

Nothing reminds me of this line more than the quote above:



what do you want to hear? so what if God doenst have the power to control everything. The good guys cant win all the time. Just accept the variable, the slightest possibility that the bad is the work of the devil. Thats your answer.

kYLEMtnCRUZr

iTrader: (6)

your brilliant answer is he's a psychopath,

Revelations answer is this.

12:7 There was war in the sky. Michael and his angels made war on the dragon. The dragon and his angels made war.

12:8 They didn't prevail, neither was a place found for him any more in heaven.

12:9 The great dragon was thrown down, the old serpent, he who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

kYLEMtnCRUZr

iTrader: (6)

"im not blaming a higher power because no such thing exists. im simply asking you what kind of higher power would allow such suffering? because the answer is one that is a psychopath"

do you see now? youre saying something doesnt exist which is totally fine, but why do you include it in a question that you keep asking?

Thats like me saying "Cheese doesnt exist! Hey, where can i buy some good cheese?"

Jin

let me sum that up.
IX: i dont believe in higher power yet you(kyle) believes in it, who is this higher power(that kyle knows of) that allows all this suffering?

and kyle, can you read my previous post and comment please, i'd like to see how my logic is flawed compared to what you think is real.

kYLEMtnCRUZr

iTrader: (6)

lol i dont know how much more i can dumb down my example for you so i give up.

when did i ever say your logic was flawed?

lol what do you want me to say? they earth is round and not in the center of the universe.

Irrational X

iTrader: (1)

this may come as a surprise, but i do in fact believe in a higher power, just not in the judeo-christian sense. with all the time i spent growing up exposed to 3 different faiths (schools, mothers, fathers) i learned that the tenets are the same

god is all knowing, all powerful, and infinitely merciful.

so given that, why would god create a system as proposed in 'intelligent design' that that causes more suffering that any other possible alternative?


yes because nothing lends more credibility to a religion than dragons

RussB

iTrader: (2)

more curiously to me, why would such a god be so vain and insecure as to smite those who do not subscribe to one particular religion.

Krinkov

iTrader: (21)

Okay, since I went to school for comparative religion and philosophy, I think I should toss out a couple of ideas here. Though every time I do nobody cares and either goes on mocking religion or blindly defending it.

The idea youre trying to express here has been made countless times, and its basically "If there is a God, why does he let bad things happen to good people?"
Very valid question, but it all depends on how you see our relationship with our Higher Power/ Higher Consciousness/ Ultimate Reality, etc.

This feeling is especially strong in western Semitic religions where they perceive UR as a personal higher power compared to most eastern religions where they view UR as a trans-personal higher power.

Anyhow, I think the best answer to your question is an example my old CR professor made. Imagine you were a bunch fleas living on the back of a dog. One day you all became self aware, and started trying to understand your universe and your place in it. You realized there was a higher lever of existence then you were experiencing that you knew you were a part of but could not fully comprehend, and now you want to establish your relationship with this higher power. You decide to call this higher power, Dog. (Funny how thats God spelled backwards huh?)

Anyhow, You know that you are inextricably connected to Dog, and that you owe your existence to Dogs existence. And that you and your entire race could not live without Dog, he is higher and more powerful than all of you. So for you to try to connect with this higher power, and to give more meaning to your own existence, you begin to worship Dog, and petition Dog for favors in exchange for your devotion.

And while you continue to thrive and prosper off of Dogs bounty, good and bad things continue to happen to the faithful and unfaithful alike, regardless of the amount of devotion any of the fleas have shown. This confuses most of the fleas, and makes them question the existence of Dog altogether.

The reality is, there is indeed a higher power and level of existence in the universe that the fleas can never fully understand. And they are right that it is Dog, and certainly there is even more above Dog that they cant even begin to remotely be aware of. But in the end for the fleas and ourselves, our higher power does not punish or reward, and cannot be petitioned or bribed with faith. But that does not mean because we nor the fleas have a direct one-on-one relationship with our higher power, and that this higher power doesn't directly intervene in our own personal affairs, that there is no higher power or expression of consciousness more than that which we can experience as humans. That would be foolishly arrogant to think that we little human beings are the highest expression of consciousness in this entire universe/reality.

In the end, the fleas will have to live on, appreciating the fact that they have evolved enough to at least realize that there is indeed a higher level of existence above their own ability to experience on their mortal level, but instead of spending their lives devoted to worshiping this UR in hopes of an eternity of reward, or in fear of an eternity of punishment, they should instead devote their lives to improving themselves and their own communities. And just maybe, trying to gain a better understanding of their place within Dogs universe without actually establishing a personal relationship with Dog.

Okay, hope that didnt come out too rambling, just got back from the bar and remembering why after college I never even bother throwing myself into these types of discussions in the first place haha



Okay, well thats all this flea has to say about it right now. time for bed

JourdanWithaU

iTrader: (39)

Superduper kudos to Jeremy!

That is probably the best explanation/example/description I have ever heard/read.

sigma pi

iTrader: (6)

saqwarrior

That is not the correct meaning of theory within a scientific context. You are thinking of the lay-person colloquialism of the word "theory."

Irrational X

iTrader: (1)

still more plausible that christianity

sigma pi

iTrader: (6)

a jewish carpenter is better than that

pablo_her

iTrader: (2)

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html

this was a good watch it was about 2 hrs but i couldnt stop watching it.