Salty

iTrader: (14)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/...055148,00.html

Discuss.

Salty

iTrader: (14)

I think the bottom line is that poverty shouldn't force one join gangs and become violent. If there's a disproportionate number of blacks committing crimes then it should be handled directly and without any PC. Today's pop-culture doesn't help at all either... I can go on and on. There HAS to be a cultural connection or mental trigger somewhere that affects blacks more. I dunno…???

VRT MBasile

iTrader: (17)

wait, people have to face the truth even if it really IS a certain race doing something no waaaaaaaaaay!!!!

IMHO people need to ****ing own up to what their culture is doing and not ***** and moan when people call them on it

MVWRX

iTrader: (1)

It IS based on poverty though. If a disproportionat number of the poor are black, then of course a disproportionate number of the delinquent will be too. It's all money, not race. That's extremely clear all over the globe, saying other wise is ignorant.

SilverScoober02

The problem is that it can't be based SOLELY on poverty. That is a contributing factor sure but the culture of violence the emminates from the rap society has to bear some accountability, and no-one will ever own up to that.

MVWRX

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, and white kids don't listen to the same rap....HA

I heard a little white ~10 year old OC kid chanting 'this is why I'm hot' the other day at lunch...

It's strictly money based...example? They have street crime in asian countrys, with little or no black involvment. Yes, it's a culture...a culture of haves vs have-nots. Have-nots use violence to have things that that haves have. It's so basic, you must be able to see it.

The sad part, and the part that needs attention, is trying to decorrelate poverty with certain ethnic groups in general...affirmative action doesn't work, we know that, so something else needs to be done.

SilverScoober02

I would argue that white kids that listen to that same music and subscribe to that same culture would be more apt to find themselves in situations that result in trouble. I could give you multiple examples of that.

The difference in our views is that you fail to acknowledge that it could be anything but money related. I just admit that there are multiple factors including the black culture along with poverty and other things. Are you that versed in the subject that you could prove that wrong?

MVWRX

iTrader: (1)

Exactly, especially if they have no money and want to emulate those who do. It doesn't matter what color they are, it matters that they don't have cash.

I can't proove that there isn't more than money involved, but by your own admition 'black culture' isn't just made by or directed at black people. So it isn't really black culture, it's embelishment of a life style of being poor and using nepharious means to accheive monitary success.

This has happened throughout history, weather or not there were black people or today's 'black culture' around. It IS ALL about money, trying to say it's correlated with a race or ethnicity is...yes, it's racist.

Salty

iTrader: (14)

Exactly.

Here's my thing... we have illnesses that affect only one race and others that clearly affect races and gender more than others. Could it be that some races are more susceptible to their social environment? How much of the human brain have we explored? I'm just saying that it being based solely on poverty seems like jumping to a conclusion for the sake of being PC and non-racist. There's just no way it's as cut and dry as blacks are poverty stricken = crime.

Someone want to give me crime statistics of countries that are made up of whites vs. blacks? Something tells me Somalia and other countries will be at the top of the ****ometer. There are probably statistics right here in the USA. In Sacramento, i’d much rather live in Rio Linda which is considered “white trash” as opposed to living anywhere near the Meadowview or other predominately black areas. And I have lived in the Meadowview area and North Highlands as a white kid. Think about it.

MVWRX

iTrader: (1)

All the countries that have extremely high crime rates are also extremely poor. I say the burden of proof is on you guys to find anything that correlates racial affinnity to violence and crime that DOESN'T correlate with poverty or wealth, because there are so many obvious examples of when race ISN'T involved but money is (French revolution, Greek and Roman society, England before there was a substantial black population, Italy, asian countries with high street crime levels, black on black crime in countries where there is a large seperation between rich and poor, early American immigrants, etc...)

Salty

iTrader: (14)

True.

But youth violence? What ever happened to trying to make money as a kid legitimately? And why the need for gangs or the need to belong to a gang? I grew up surrounded by gangs in a bad neighborhood and never had the urge to join. We're not saying poverty doesn't play a big role... we're saying that society and culture have to play some role here.

I just don't understand why people dont accept the "gansta lifestyle" and awful parenting and households as MAJOR parts of the problem? Does being middle or upper class make you a serial killer? Of course not. So why does being poor make you a delinquent? It doesn't have to be that way. But nope. just follow the rich white man. It's just money!

spedmunki

I have to ay that this issue is based soley on poverty.

There are three basic reasons for people to join a gang or engage in multiple nefarious acts of crime:
1. No marketable strenghths. i.e. no higher education. This can be brought back to poverty because in western countries, especially the U.S., there is a huge class difference, and there many "hotspots" in which lower class individuals are densly populated. These areas which are very poor have badly funded school systems and do not have any where near the resources of more affluent areas. In these areas there are large dropout rates or the student just do not receive the education they need to enter into a succesful career.

2. Temptations of a fast lifestyle. i.e. The life of the party. Many criminals engage in acts in order to get fast cash because they want to live flashy lifestyles. These are lifestyles they yearn for because of what they see in the commercial world, but are not able to access due to there extremely low class and income.

3. Drug Habbits. Criminals need cash to fuel drug or alcohol habbits. They can not make nearly enough money doing honest work so they turn to a life of crime and violence. These drugs are prevelent in the areas that they live in and these habbits usually start when they join a gang.

All of these problems come to us because of the areas that the poor live in. It's a vicious cycle, especially in the United States. We are one of the most affluent countries in the world and yet we have the highest amount of people lioving in poverty of any western country. People are poor so they live in low income areas where they can form gangs. The government does little to disperse the poor or raise them out of their class with any sort of funding. There are generations of people who are born into poverty in this country and cannot escape it, and therfore turn to crime.

Saying that this is caused by a "trigger" in one race is absolutely ignorant. I know plenty of african americans around where i live and none of them are criminals. I also have many white friends who listen to "gangster rap" and they are no more steered towards a life of crime than I am. This social problem has everything to do with the class system in western countries. If your in college take a criminology class and you will learn all about it.

SilverScoober02

True ignorance is limiting yourself to one answer when there could be many answers.

I don't think this is a issue solely for "blacks" It has to do with the culture that some subscribe to. The Gangster/Rap culture. And of course poverty plays a large role but you can't limit it to just that otherwise everyone that was born in/raised in poverty would fail and turn to the crime/gangs/drugs that we talk about, if your theory held true.

I think all Salty and I are saying is that there are other factors that play a role besides poverty.

MVWRX

iTrader: (1)

I'm not saying that ALL poverty stricken people will turn to crime. And I'm not saying that ALL criminals come from poverty. I'm saying that there is a high correlation between poverty and crime, and almost no correlation between race and crime (if you account for the unfortunate correlation between race and poverty).


And in this case, there are several factors...but they ALL have lack-of-money as their bottom line (lack of education, feelings of being ignored by 'regular' society and the need to create a parallel culture, lack of confidence in parents ability to take care of kids, etc...)

It really is all about money on some level.