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Plan to Keep Detainees in Jail for Life

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Old Jan 3, 2005 | 12:06 PM
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Plan to Keep Detainees in Jail for Life

What do you think about this idea?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...izedbysenators

What would be your remedy?
Old Jan 3, 2005 | 12:20 PM
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How about a trial and conviction based on evidence, would that be too much to ask for?
Old Jan 3, 2005 | 12:52 PM
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Then what if we released an actual terrorist?
Old Jan 3, 2005 | 01:45 PM
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Maybe we should just lock everyone up for life.

Who really NEEDS freedom anyway? especially when there might be terrorists out there?

But if everyone on the whole planet is locked up the terrorist problem wouldn't exist anymore, so maybe they are on to something there.....
Old Jan 3, 2005 | 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Salty
Then what if we released an actual terrorist?
That's part of having a democratic republic with checks and balances. There are Bad People in the world, to gain freedom you lose (certain) security. I.e. If you want life-long suspected terrorist detainees with no rights, then you better be prepared to bit your tongue when you are mistaken for being a terrorist.

What's more important to you? That innocents are exonnerated? Or the the guilty are removed from society?

Me? I don't live with fear as a motive, or at least I try not to. I vote for exonnerating innocents over having a broader, less discriminating net.

jason
Old Jan 3, 2005 | 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by psoper
Maybe we should just lock everyone up for life.

Who really NEEDS freedom anyway? especially when there might be terrorists out there?

But if everyone on the whole planet is locked up the terrorist problem wouldn't exist anymore, so maybe they are on to something there.....
But the difference is that these suspected terrorists have already cast the first stone as a terrorist.

The owners at the quickie mart haven't raised any red flags because they're law bidding, tax paying citizens/legal aliens with respectable families. It would be an entirely different scenario once they send an email to Northern Pakistan or have an inventory of RPGs instead of slurpee mix.

It’s sorta like kicking someone of A.A. and giving them keys to a tractor-trailer.
Old Jan 3, 2005 | 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by mmboost
That's part of having a democratic republic with checks and balances. There are Bad People in the world, to gain freedom you lose (certain) security. I.e. If you want life-long suspected terrorist detainees with no rights, then you better be prepared to bit your tongue when you are mistaken for being a terrorist.

What's more important to you? That innocents are exonnerated? Or the the guilty are removed from society?

Me? I don't live with fear as a motive, or at least I try not to. I vote for exonnerating innocents over having a broader, less discriminating net.

jason
I see your point and would probably agree if they weren't suspected terrorists.

There's just too much at risk and too much to be lost when exonerating these types of individuals.
Old Jan 3, 2005 | 02:25 PM
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We should have this policy about Communists too.

Oh wait, we did.

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Old Jan 3, 2005 | 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by psoper
How about a trial and conviction based on evidence, would that be too much to ask for?
As much as it pains me to say this, "I agree with you."
Old Jan 4, 2005 | 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by psoper
How about a trial and conviction based on evidence, would that be too much to ask for?
The key word here is evidence. This business of keeping them locked up because they "are" terrorists is BS. If they are and there is EVIDENCE then show us the evidence and then lock them up for life, but if there is not evidence that they are terrorists then let them go for god's sake. We're supposed to be this beacon of democracy right? Lets act like it.
Old Jan 4, 2005 | 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by SilverScoober02
The key word here is evidence. This business of keeping them locked up because they "are" terrorists is BS. If they are and there is EVIDENCE then show us the evidence and then lock them up for life, but if there is not evidence that they are terrorists then let them go for god's sake. We're supposed to be this beacon of democracy right? Lets act like it.
I see your point too but our democracy and numerous rights guaranteed to us do not apply to suspected terrorists. It's not like we're nabbing these guys at the local gas station without any evidence. They were gagged and bagged in terrorist strongholds in Fallujah and the caves of Afghanistan. They're not the masterminds of terrorist plots with ink on their hands, which is probably why we don't have solid, textbook evidence on them to coin them as "terrorists." However, they're certainly on the guest list for Ayman al-Zawahiri’s party.
Old Jan 4, 2005 | 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Salty
They were gagged and bagged in terrorist strongholds in Fallujah and the caves of Afghanistan. They're not the masterminds of terrorist plots with ink on their hands, which is probably why we don't have solid, textbook evidence on them to coin them as "terrorists." However, they're certainly on the guest list for Ayman al-Zawahiri’s party.

1) Guilty by association is tricky business. Being associated with Bad People doesn't make you a bad person. This was part of Jesus' problem ("He eats with sinners!"). Lets say there are people detained due to association with Bad People who were mearly supply gatherers, cooks or laborers. Do they deserve to be imprisoned without any rights? Even if they have knowledge, should they receive this treatment?

2) I thought American policy was to promote democracy throughout the world? Then why not give those rights to those gagged and bagged in terrorist strongholds in Fallujah and the caves of Afghanistan. Why should a serial killer or mas murderer arrested by the local police in the US have more legal rights than someone who feels they are defending their home? (ye olde "On man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter").



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Old Jan 4, 2005 | 10:40 AM
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Maybe we could "de-program" them in some way. Feed nothing but translated Dr. Phil and Martha Stewart into their cells for a year or two and then release them back into the wild. Or maybe we can convince the terrorists that they are double agents and they can do our dirty work for us?
Old Jan 4, 2005 | 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by deyes
Feed nothing but translated Dr. Phil and Martha Stewart into their cells for a year or two.....

Sounds to me like you're advocating torture!
Old Jan 4, 2005 | 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by mmboost
1) Guilty by association is tricky business. Being associated with Bad People doesn't make you a bad person. This was part of Jesus' problem ("He eats with sinners!"). Lets say there are people detained due to association with Bad People who were mearly supply gatherers, cooks or laborers. Do they deserve to be imprisoned without any rights? Even if they have knowledge, should they receive this treatment?
I agree with everything said thus far.

I'd just hate to see what would happen if we had a 9/11 version 2.0 with one of these guys. Imagine the dog and pony show then.


Originally Posted by mmboost
2) I thought American policy was to promote democracy throughout the world? Then why not give those rights to those gagged and bagged in terrorist strongholds in Fallujah and the caves of Afghanistan. Why should a serial killer or mas murderer arrested by the local police in the US have more legal rights than someone who feels they are defending their home? (ye olde "On man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter").

jason
Stupid question

1)They're not citizens of the United States and are not under the same laws. Furthermore, they aren't insurgents and have even fewer rights in that respect.

2)We don't negotiate with terrorists because they are a threat to the very fabric of our society. I hardly doubt you'd question this if your head was on the Islamic cutting board or your family was in jeopardy.

3)Our country and freedoms really have no affect on their countries liberties & practices. You cannot base your ideal of freedom on spiritual enlightenment with 72 virgins and the so-called word of an invisible man in the sky (Allah). It just doesn't work that way because there's no truce and way too much to be lost.

The list goes on and on.



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