I try

 

I never said you liked Bush. I don't think it. I never implied it. I actually do not care. You haven't read my posts, so it wuold seem. You are arguing against things I have not said nor even espoused through implication.

I'll put it forward one more time: My comparisons, for the most part(yes, not 100%, there was one point, but for the most part), have tried to shy away from a direct comparison between Bush and Hitler and show that pre-WWII Germany and curent USA have similar social tendencies... read my first post... and with that the respective leaders of those two societies cannot escape the sentiments of the people who put them in power. So of course we, myself included, cannot fully escape that comparison. It has to happen. However, I've said multilpe times how making an only comparative or only contrasting argument is stupid. I am the one who originally said it wasn't black and white and it cannot be argued as such.

The sign in the original post does not say "Only Hitler and Bush are alike". If you want to bring other from history, feel free. There are many. You havn't been reading what I've written, you are responding to things other than what I've said.


The only thing I found wrong with anything you, Salty, said is the deep political commentary from you original post:

How helpful is that?


jason

 

I have read every post you've written thus far, Jason! I even tackle your "strong sentiments" point in my last post.

This is part of my point!

It's not even 50% accurate so why even try to compare him to Hitler when the argument is weak? You could have compared him to someone else that wasn't a lunatic with such a tainted image!

And I apologize for my unhelpful response... I've had to deal with this pathetic argument a couple time in the politics forum. Both threads were eventually dumpstered because the poster had no ****ing clue or ability to reasonably back his claims. Grow some thicker skin... your avatar is beginning to suit your personality.

 

As people, like I said, on the thick surface as a leader, yes you and Daniel are right. I was trying to bring out that whether your agenda is altruistic or diabolic, using oppressive force and finding your agenda so important that the ends justify the means, bullying your way to completion, are strong similarities between the two men and their nations. In the list of facts you could compare, this might be a small number, but these are very, very heavy weighted constituents of that list. So "heavy", I feel they do validate at least some comparison. If you are truly reading it all, then you know I do not see Bush as some wackjob despot seeking to rule the world. I see him as someone who is not honest with himself nor his people but has found ways to justify that and his actions.

Heh, I wasn't complaining nor was I butthurt. I was just responding to your comment of:

Which you said in response to my assumption that you like Bush... which I never made in any way. Equally unhelpful.

Beginning? See you don't read my posts


jason

 

I guess I can agree to that to a point. I see things differently since Im not really from this country, and WWII has been drilled into my brain since I was a child... We can agree to disagree pending points of view.. hah.

 

Lay off the crack, an ******* and a genocidal murderer are two different things.
Also I notice liberals either regard bush as a war criminal or an idiot. I don't think he's the brightest man in the world either, but he does have business degrees from harvard and yale. Does anyone here have either of those? Didn't think so. I really don't think americans would've elected an "idiot".

 

tistom et a'pe

 

How appropriate... I'm sure a lot of Hitler's victims thought about saying this too.

 

Its funny... I dunno if you are Jewish or not, and I don't think Daniel is, but I find it funny, in the odd sense of the word, that myself as someone who grew up a "conservadox" Jew (all the legalsims without the committment to Eastern European Jewish culture), with a bevy of extended family who died in the Holocaust, that when the subject of Hitler comes up as the genocidal maniac the jewish csociety I grew up gets on the topic and then off it. From the Euopean Jews I know, admittedly its not many now that I am older, they are not stuck on it either. We understand what he did, we hate it, we teach our children to beware, we say "Never again!" and we get on with our lives, living out of hope instead of fear.

You guys on the other hand seem stuck on it. Sure we're bringing up the subject of Hitler here, I realize that. But you talk about it in a reactionary manner more often than a thoughtful one. What you said above, I really don't get it. Is it sarcasm? Are you agreeing with me? Are you being silly? Is it some sort of jab at me? Or At Hitler? Or a hurrah for Hitler's victims? In any of those ways, I think my wonderings still apply.

My point is, if what Hitler did and the sufferings of those who suffered because of him are so profound, then don't diminish it by waving it as some flag representing your personal anger that constantly ressurects the dead to more suffering. Where is there hope in that?

I realize you probabaly won't agree, but I feel that the present memorials in former death camps are of the worst kind. It perpetuates anger and distrust more than it does hope. I am a student of history and I firmly believe that none of what happened should be forgotten. The War and the Holocaust should always be remembered and taught to everyone. But at some point the angst that comes from past evil needs to be healed by letting it go. [edit]That includes using Slayer as a basis for philosohy, Daniel j/k [/edit]

jason

 

That's fine! And for the record I had an entire relatives family get killed by V2. It doesn't affect me now but you certainly don't have to be Jewish to sympathize.

I think it's important to stick on it as to avoid this from ever happening again. Minesracing pisses in a few people's cornflakes with such an ignorant comment and we're supposed to take it lightly? And yes, I was being sarcastic and silly having known that was Hebrew.


You diminished it by making a general comparison to Bush! Imagine teaching this idea to a class of 6th graders... they'll look outside and wonder just how bad Hilter was. Hell, maybe some of those will accept the idea that Hitler wasn't so bad because Bush isn't 1/100th as bad now.


I disagree.

There's nothing wrong with directing anger towards the Reich now or 100 years from now. Furthermore, this does not affect the dead and resurrect them to more suffering.

It's not like people walk around pissed off at Hitler all day long, Jason. Most all of the mourning has passed and those that were affect, such as yourself, carry on with your daily lives. I think it's important that you show a little human emotion when learning or talking about it though. That’s what you’re seeing in this thread...

 

I'm not making a general comparison. As I've said, that would be stupid. The original poster was making such a comparison. My comparison was pretty darn specific: (to quote myself ) "[I] was trying to bring out that whether [an] agenda is altruistic or diabolic, using oppressive force and finding [this] agenda so important that the ends justify the means, bullying your way to completion, are strong similarities between the two men and their nations". I'm also bothered by Bush's (and the "Religious Right"'s) campaign to co-opt the Judeo-Christian God's name onto his policies - this is also something Hitler did as it suited him.

I don't think this diminishes the story of 11 million dead people, not even counting the direct cost of the war itself, I think freely raising such questions it is part of the "warning system" of "Never forget!". I am merely pointing out societal (in the USA) and personal (in Bush) traits that frighteningly mimic that pre-WWII germany and Hitler. Isn't that part of being a watchdog for "Never forget!" ? The goal is to find a healthy balance between "Never forget!" and living by hope. If Hitler is put on so a high pedastal as the poster boy for Evil that we are unable to look at ourselves and find the buddings of similar faults, we have remembered nothing helpful. All we are left with is continually brining back the pain and hated, what I allude to as "resurrecting". Nothing hopeful, nothing helpful, just death and pain. Are you sure you are not blindly refusing to see similarities solely because you really do not want to imagine that your country and your country's leader could operate in some way out of Nazism? The comparisons I made in the previous paragraph, you actually find them to be wholly untrue? If they are true at all, I find them to be two of the more striking comparisons one could make and need to be recognized and discussed with history in mind, but apart from hopeless anger.

jason

 

I would have to agree with this but all i'm saying is that it'll never get past this with an American President. The odds are like 1 in a billion for the leader of the free world to turn into another Hitler. It is possible but surely not probable and that's why I think it's a bad comparison. Tell you what... if Bush or any other President in our lifetime turns into Hitler or anywhere near as bad, i'll buy you a car, okay?!

Are we done here?

 

Bush isn't like Hitler. He's like Nixon, Reagan, and all the other republican presidents that have trashed the economy, environment, and our international relations.
And before someone calls me a dirty tree hugging hippy, I'll let you know that I spent the last couple of weeks in Tahoe hugging trees and getting all dirty with my girl.

 

and they aren't ? Heh.


Salty, almost... where' the make-up sex?

jason

 

Salty, what's crackalackin'?

Check your inbox, y0.