The new military.
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Originally Posted by Salty
...found myself complelled to write this as the castration or our military cripples its effectiveness and efficiency.
In todays military, we find ourselves in the most politically correct, affirmative action, corporate setting that our military has ever known. Through this I notice that the lower enlisted seem to have more power than a general....With the whip of a pen and a postage stamp, they have the power of a Congressional figurehead.
It is a place where the officers are politicians, the NCO's hands are tied, the lower enlisted are spoiled and the warrant officers are trying to hide.
...our hands are tied during training and we have an embedded reporter looking over our shoulder every second armchair quarterbacking our every move.
...I have noticed in TRADOC (Training and Doctrine Command. The folks responsible for designing our institutional training at Basic Training/OSUT, NCO/officer professional development courses...), more time is spent training on such issues as EO, sexual harrasment, rape prevention, suicide prevention and sexual assualt education than learning the art of war.
...like finding two females together in the latrine together, male and female having sex in a foxhole during an FTX, male and female having sex in a water buffalo and in dumpsters..etc
...Hearing about how there have been 30 reported sexual assaults in the last three months on this post. The focus of our military has strayed away from combat to hormone control and political correctness.
The Privates seem to have the most power.
The NCO Corps is suffering a crippling blow as we speak, because of the fear of a Congressional Investigation.... The potential of a false sexual harassment charge, because things didn't go their way....Worrying about how every word you say may be used against you in a UCMJ court of law....
In todays military, we find ourselves in the most politically correct, affirmative action, corporate setting that our military has ever known. Through this I notice that the lower enlisted seem to have more power than a general....With the whip of a pen and a postage stamp, they have the power of a Congressional figurehead.
It is a place where the officers are politicians, the NCO's hands are tied, the lower enlisted are spoiled and the warrant officers are trying to hide.
...our hands are tied during training and we have an embedded reporter looking over our shoulder every second armchair quarterbacking our every move.
...I have noticed in TRADOC (Training and Doctrine Command. The folks responsible for designing our institutional training at Basic Training/OSUT, NCO/officer professional development courses...), more time is spent training on such issues as EO, sexual harrasment, rape prevention, suicide prevention and sexual assualt education than learning the art of war.
...like finding two females together in the latrine together, male and female having sex in a foxhole during an FTX, male and female having sex in a water buffalo and in dumpsters..etc
...Hearing about how there have been 30 reported sexual assaults in the last three months on this post. The focus of our military has strayed away from combat to hormone control and political correctness.
The Privates seem to have the most power.
The NCO Corps is suffering a crippling blow as we speak, because of the fear of a Congressional Investigation.... The potential of a false sexual harassment charge, because things didn't go their way....Worrying about how every word you say may be used against you in a UCMJ court of law....
This guy is nothing but a whiner. He blames Congressionals and others' rights and privledges for not being able to control his soldiers. FWIW, SF troopers don't HAVE any privates, so I wonder who's he is talking to. I know Group has support troops and therefore men and women, but not on the teams. This guy must be a support soldier. If he's on an A team, he certainly isn't having to put up with the same ankle-biter EO complaints, because there are no females on SF A teams.
A little note about Inspector General, Equal Opportunity, and Congressional Investigations. In my previous and my current company, there are directives, punishments, nor admonitions that come down from high based on the findings of an investigator. As a matter of fact, the findings STOP with me unless I display recalcitrance in addressing or investigating/assisting the investigation. Now, if the investigation finds an actual crime, then they send that up the flag pole.
I can imagine leaders across the Army whining about having to conduct all of those touchy-feely classes every quarter or semi-annually. They are a pain in the rump, but guess what. The world is evolving and it's a mission that we've been given. They don't take that long and over the course of a year, they amount to about 1% or less of our time.
Lastly, he's making a veiled complaint about women in the military. Personally, I'm not a big fan, but professionally I can handle it. In my line of work (up until I went into recruiting) I never had to worry about it. I've never worked alongside any female soldiers. I've worked with them before when their unit was supporting us. I've been stuck with the thought of '...that is a very attractive soldier. I wonder how that affects the other personnel and herself in her daily activities. Is the fact that other soldiers are trying to get into her pants detracting from the unit's mission? I wonder if it creates any extra work or headache on her chain of command.' In actuality, I've seen in deployment situations where what I call '***** politics' is in effect when the soldier is actually un-attractive. Soldiers are always thinking about the other sex. No different from civilians.
For better or worse, the Army has female soldiers. It's a fact of life that must be dealt with. It may make a unit's mission more or less difficult, but they must be treated like every other soldier. Along with that, though, my only gripe is that female soldiers have lower standards on their Army Physical Fitness Test and some leaders I've witnessed do seem to take it easier on their female soldiers. Personally, I don't care what sex a soldier is. I go out of my way to treat female soldiers the same way I do male. I can chew any soldier out or recognize positive work no matter what their sex.
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He's in a team. I think he's summarizing what he's heard for the most part. I'm not too sure he's had female contact besides PLDC, BNCOC and whatever other co-ed school he's attended.
Besides what we’ve already covered, can anyone else think of a time media directly compromised a mission? I can only think of one time the media helped the situation. But it could have been extremely bad if the broadcast didn't convince the military led dictatorship i'm thinking of.
Besides what we’ve already covered, can anyone else think of a time media directly compromised a mission? I can only think of one time the media helped the situation. But it could have been extremely bad if the broadcast didn't convince the military led dictatorship i'm thinking of.
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It's funny you should ask that because there have been times when I knew a mission was compromised and now I can't think of them off hand. I do know that a mission to catch "Chemical Al" outside of Mosul was foiled when a reporter with an Airborne unit said exactly what they were about to do. It was on CNN and is also depicted in the book "In the Company of Soldiers" by Rich Atkinson. I have been in the military for almost 5 years and I have to say that as a leader, I have always had control of my soldiers and no private has ever had more pull than me. I don't think of myself as "higher" than them, the military is not an aristocracy and I recognize that I am only superior in rank.
On the note of EO, I have to agree with Salty again. The Army is changing. Only 30 some years ago the Army was largely composed of draftees who would only be in the Army until there service was fulfilled. While they were in they were constantly tasked to either support or direct combat roles. There was little down time. The troops that weren't draftees where hardliners who enlisted in a time of war or lifers who more than likely, had Army in their blood. They were probably engrained with soldier attributes even before they enlisted which limited the likelyhood of them "messing up". After Vietnam the Army evolved into what could be called a disciplined civilian sector with a lot more weapons. Women and men together doing the same jobs with tons of down time. This is where maintenance becomes an issue. Many of the people who were in at the time may not have been engrained with the morals and ethics needed to be a trustworthy soldier. In order to keep the organization for destroying itself we have these intangible training sessions because they are necessary. They inform the soldiers on the consequences, the protocol in dealing with a problem and more importantly they inform them of the issues. This is why we have them. To maintain the force.
About women in the military; I'm fine with the standards as they are with a few exceptions. First off, lets have seperate APFT scales (i.e my 300 is not the same as your 300). I am insulted when a women says shes just as good as PT as me when I run a 12 minute 2 mile do 100 push-ups and sit-ups and she runs a 15 and does 50 push-ups and sit-ups. I think we both know who is in better physical shape. As long as women are not in combat arms I am fine with them. But the day I am digging a foxhole with a women or waiting for her to assualt through an objective because she is tired and that 300 APFT becomes evidently unequal is the day I will leave the Army.
On the note of EO, I have to agree with Salty again. The Army is changing. Only 30 some years ago the Army was largely composed of draftees who would only be in the Army until there service was fulfilled. While they were in they were constantly tasked to either support or direct combat roles. There was little down time. The troops that weren't draftees where hardliners who enlisted in a time of war or lifers who more than likely, had Army in their blood. They were probably engrained with soldier attributes even before they enlisted which limited the likelyhood of them "messing up". After Vietnam the Army evolved into what could be called a disciplined civilian sector with a lot more weapons. Women and men together doing the same jobs with tons of down time. This is where maintenance becomes an issue. Many of the people who were in at the time may not have been engrained with the morals and ethics needed to be a trustworthy soldier. In order to keep the organization for destroying itself we have these intangible training sessions because they are necessary. They inform the soldiers on the consequences, the protocol in dealing with a problem and more importantly they inform them of the issues. This is why we have them. To maintain the force.
About women in the military; I'm fine with the standards as they are with a few exceptions. First off, lets have seperate APFT scales (i.e my 300 is not the same as your 300). I am insulted when a women says shes just as good as PT as me when I run a 12 minute 2 mile do 100 push-ups and sit-ups and she runs a 15 and does 50 push-ups and sit-ups. I think we both know who is in better physical shape. As long as women are not in combat arms I am fine with them. But the day I am digging a foxhole with a women or waiting for her to assualt through an objective because she is tired and that 300 APFT becomes evidently unequal is the day I will leave the Army.
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Being an E5 (hopefully an E6 soon) myself, I had to chime in on this one. I spent the last 7 years as Air Force SF. The main question I have to all these armchair soldiers is this: If you want to know what goes on from day to day and what we are doing on the front lines, THEN SIGN UP YOURSELF! I promise you, you will get to see the REAL story then. Not what Communist News Network wants you to see.
It has always seemed to me that the people doing the most complaining/questioning about how our military operates, are the same people lacking the testicular fortitude to join the military themselves. They always want to question the integrity of the people that defend their rights to do so. The funny thing is, there is more integrity in 1 Airman/Soldier/Marine/Seaman than 90% of the civilian population of this country! And, if I was that platoon leader present when Geraldo did that, I would have shot him myself. I will not allow ANYTHING to comprimise the integrity or safety of my troops. Like the old saying goes, I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by six.
Hey gpat, he wants to know what goes on from day to day. You are a recruiter, you can arrange that right?!
It has always seemed to me that the people doing the most complaining/questioning about how our military operates, are the same people lacking the testicular fortitude to join the military themselves. They always want to question the integrity of the people that defend their rights to do so. The funny thing is, there is more integrity in 1 Airman/Soldier/Marine/Seaman than 90% of the civilian population of this country! And, if I was that platoon leader present when Geraldo did that, I would have shot him myself. I will not allow ANYTHING to comprimise the integrity or safety of my troops. Like the old saying goes, I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by six.
Hey gpat, he wants to know what goes on from day to day. You are a recruiter, you can arrange that right?!
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Originally Posted by gpatmac
With up to a $20k bonus and/or a $65k loan repayment and/or a $70k college fund.
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So that's a $6K bonus now with $14k if I ship before May 31st to equal 20K? Or is that 34k total?
I wish I got something like this. Imagine how much money you can save in the Army if you eat in the chowhall every meal, bum beers on the weekends from room to room and actually write-off haircuts, uniform purchase/services etc. Wow. They need to implement serious financing classes instead of EO circle jerks.
I was pretty good at keeping receipts on uniform stuff and haircuts. But I made up for it on weekend beer and mexican food in Fayetteville.
I wish I got something like this. Imagine how much money you can save in the Army if you eat in the chowhall every meal, bum beers on the weekends from room to room and actually write-off haircuts, uniform purchase/services etc. Wow. They need to implement serious financing classes instead of EO circle jerks.
I was pretty good at keeping receipts on uniform stuff and haircuts. But I made up for it on weekend beer and mexican food in Fayetteville.
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haha fayetteville...good times. I don't think I understand "circle jerk" though. Those classes are so important (turn sarcasm filter on). Yeah, you can literally get rich in the Army now if you manage and invest your money right. $60,000 a year isn't much but it adds up quick when you don't have a single expense. I religiously invest at least half my Army check every month and then I have some other business ventures that make me more than the Army pays me.
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ewww, that bonus thing is a really sore subject for me! I just found out the hard way that just because you are promised that bonus, IN WRITING, doesn't mean you'll get it. I got screwed out of 24 grand! I'm not sure how the Army figures their bonuses, but the AF works like this:
I initially joined for 6 years in Oct. 98. June of last year I applied for, and was approved for a cross-train to a new carreer field (MOS in Army speak). The job I was approved for, Computer Sytems Control, had a 5.5 multiplier which is one of the highest in the AF. Because of the money it cost the AF to send me to this school, I had to extend for at least 20 months to go to it. (Pretty much showing the AF I wasn't going to go to it and then get out after my enlistment was up) Now, here is where the problem lies. Previously, in the AF, if you extended for the purpose of a crosstrain, when you graduate from your new tech school, you could reenlist into your new carreer field and the extension be dropped in favor of the new enlistment contract. For example, I graduated in late Dec. 2004. I reenlisted, Jan. 5 05. This enlistment, according to my contract, was for 4 years. (5 Jan 2005-4 Jan 2009). Now here's where the AF's bonus program kicks in-----> I should have been paid like this:
My base pay: 2205.30
multiplied by # of years reenlisting (4)
------------------------------------------------------
=8821.20
mulitply that x my new carreer field's multiplier (5.5)
------------------------------------------------------
=48516.60 is what I should have been paid. ( Before the usual -28% then 1/2 up front the rest among the term of enlistment crap)
HOWEVER, what really happened is the AF raised these bonuses to get all these people into these critically manned carreer fields. Then, for almost a year, the AF puts all these people's bonuses on hold, gradually paying us a little at a time. I was paid 13 grand up front. Then, we all get notice that everyones contract is being backdated to reflect what they call obligated service, because of the extension that THEY MADE US PUT IN IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! and we were not going to get the rest of our bonus! Someone (Col.) decided that if they went back and did this, they would save the AF millions! Of course I raise the BS flag. I was told by MPF (military personnell flight) that "yes, the Air Force lied on your contract. Because of this, you can get out of it if you want. All you have to do is pay back the 13 grand we paid you (plus the 28% tax), and serve the remainder of the 20 month extension" WHAT! This is the biggest scam ever. Not only were they getting out of paying this money, they were now forcing us to serve an extension we didn't want to sign up for in the first place. They are filling all these critically manned positions for FREE! Of course I had already spent my initial 13 grand, and don't have it to pay back. So, I'm serving my whole 4 year contract for just 13 grand. Needless to say, this will be my LAST enlistment in ANY military branch. So much for our core values, integrity first, service before self, and excellence in all we do , huh? The funny thing is, after dropping like 80% of the enlisted force's bonuses, they raise they bonuses for almost all the officer ranks!
I initially joined for 6 years in Oct. 98. June of last year I applied for, and was approved for a cross-train to a new carreer field (MOS in Army speak). The job I was approved for, Computer Sytems Control, had a 5.5 multiplier which is one of the highest in the AF. Because of the money it cost the AF to send me to this school, I had to extend for at least 20 months to go to it. (Pretty much showing the AF I wasn't going to go to it and then get out after my enlistment was up) Now, here is where the problem lies. Previously, in the AF, if you extended for the purpose of a crosstrain, when you graduate from your new tech school, you could reenlist into your new carreer field and the extension be dropped in favor of the new enlistment contract. For example, I graduated in late Dec. 2004. I reenlisted, Jan. 5 05. This enlistment, according to my contract, was for 4 years. (5 Jan 2005-4 Jan 2009). Now here's where the AF's bonus program kicks in-----> I should have been paid like this:
My base pay: 2205.30
multiplied by # of years reenlisting (4)
------------------------------------------------------
=8821.20
mulitply that x my new carreer field's multiplier (5.5)
------------------------------------------------------
=48516.60 is what I should have been paid. ( Before the usual -28% then 1/2 up front the rest among the term of enlistment crap)
HOWEVER, what really happened is the AF raised these bonuses to get all these people into these critically manned carreer fields. Then, for almost a year, the AF puts all these people's bonuses on hold, gradually paying us a little at a time. I was paid 13 grand up front. Then, we all get notice that everyones contract is being backdated to reflect what they call obligated service, because of the extension that THEY MADE US PUT IN IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! and we were not going to get the rest of our bonus! Someone (Col.) decided that if they went back and did this, they would save the AF millions! Of course I raise the BS flag. I was told by MPF (military personnell flight) that "yes, the Air Force lied on your contract. Because of this, you can get out of it if you want. All you have to do is pay back the 13 grand we paid you (plus the 28% tax), and serve the remainder of the 20 month extension" WHAT! This is the biggest scam ever. Not only were they getting out of paying this money, they were now forcing us to serve an extension we didn't want to sign up for in the first place. They are filling all these critically manned positions for FREE! Of course I had already spent my initial 13 grand, and don't have it to pay back. So, I'm serving my whole 4 year contract for just 13 grand. Needless to say, this will be my LAST enlistment in ANY military branch. So much for our core values, integrity first, service before self, and excellence in all we do , huh? The funny thing is, after dropping like 80% of the enlisted force's bonuses, they raise they bonuses for almost all the officer ranks!
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Originally Posted by Salty
So that's a $6K bonus now with $14k if I ship before May 31st to equal 20K? Or is that 34k total?
I wish I got something like this. Imagine how much money you can save in the Army if you eat in the chowhall every meal, bum beers on the weekends from room to room and actually write-off haircuts, uniform purchase/services etc. Wow. They need to implement serious financing classes instead of EO circle jerks.
I was pretty good at keeping receipts on uniform stuff and haircuts. But I made up for it on weekend beer and mexican food in Fayetteville.
I wish I got something like this. Imagine how much money you can save in the Army if you eat in the chowhall every meal, bum beers on the weekends from room to room and actually write-off haircuts, uniform purchase/services etc. Wow. They need to implement serious financing classes instead of EO circle jerks.
I was pretty good at keeping receipts on uniform stuff and haircuts. But I made up for it on weekend beer and mexican food in Fayetteville.
BTW, speaking of bene's, I have had one baby in the last 2 years and will have one in the next week or two. NO COST for the birth or post! I don't even know how much I take that fact for granted. That has nothing to do with rank, even a private with 6 months in whose wife gives birth gets that benefit for free.
Nothing's free, though, right?
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Originally Posted by lastlaugh
ewww, that bonus thing is a really sore subject for me! I just found out the hard way that just because you are promised that bonus, IN WRITING, doesn't mean you'll get it. I got screwed out of 24 grand! I'm not sure how the Army figures their bonuses, but the AF works like this:
I initially joined for 6 years in Oct. 98. June of last year I applied for, and was approved for a cross-train to a new carreer field (MOS in Army speak). The job I was approved for, Computer Sytems Control, had a 5.5 multiplier which is one of the highest in the AF. Because of the money it cost the AF to send me to this school, I had to extend for at least 20 months to go to it. (Pretty much showing the AF I wasn't going to go to it and then get out after my enlistment was up) Now, here is where the problem lies. Previously, in the AF, if you extended for the purpose of a crosstrain, when you graduate from your new tech school, you could reenlist into your new carreer field and the extension be dropped in favor of the new enlistment contract. For example, I graduated in late Dec. 2004. I reenlisted, Jan. 5 05. This enlistment, according to my contract, was for 4 years. (5 Jan 2005-4 Jan 2009). Now here's where the AF's bonus program kicks in-----> I should have been paid like this:
My base pay: 2205.30
multiplied by # of years reenlisting (4)
------------------------------------------------------
=8821.20
mulitply that x my new carreer field's multiplier (5.5)
------------------------------------------------------
=48516.60 is what I should have been paid. ( Before the usual -28% then 1/2 up front the rest among the term of enlistment crap)
HOWEVER, what really happened is the AF raised these bonuses to get all these people into these critically manned carreer fields. Then, for almost a year, the AF puts all these people's bonuses on hold, gradually paying us a little at a time. I was paid 13 grand up front. Then, we all get notice that everyones contract is being backdated to reflect what they call obligated service, because of the extension that THEY MADE US PUT IN IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! and we were not going to get the rest of our bonus! Someone (Col.) decided that if they went back and did this, they would save the AF millions! Of course I raise the BS flag. I was told by MPF (military personnell flight) that "yes, the Air Force lied on your contract. Because of this, you can get out of it if you want. All you have to do is pay back the 13 grand we paid you (plus the 28% tax), and serve the remainder of the 20 month extension" WHAT! This is the biggest scam ever. Not only were they getting out of paying this money, they were now forcing us to serve an extension we didn't want to sign up for in the first place. They are filling all these critically manned positions for FREE! Of course I had already spent my initial 13 grand, and don't have it to pay back. So, I'm serving my whole 4 year contract for just 13 grand. Needless to say, this will be my LAST enlistment in ANY military branch. So much for our core values, integrity first, service before self, and excellence in all we do , huh? The funny thing is, after dropping like 80% of the enlisted force's bonuses, they raise they bonuses for almost all the officer ranks!
I initially joined for 6 years in Oct. 98. June of last year I applied for, and was approved for a cross-train to a new carreer field (MOS in Army speak). The job I was approved for, Computer Sytems Control, had a 5.5 multiplier which is one of the highest in the AF. Because of the money it cost the AF to send me to this school, I had to extend for at least 20 months to go to it. (Pretty much showing the AF I wasn't going to go to it and then get out after my enlistment was up) Now, here is where the problem lies. Previously, in the AF, if you extended for the purpose of a crosstrain, when you graduate from your new tech school, you could reenlist into your new carreer field and the extension be dropped in favor of the new enlistment contract. For example, I graduated in late Dec. 2004. I reenlisted, Jan. 5 05. This enlistment, according to my contract, was for 4 years. (5 Jan 2005-4 Jan 2009). Now here's where the AF's bonus program kicks in-----> I should have been paid like this:
My base pay: 2205.30
multiplied by # of years reenlisting (4)
------------------------------------------------------
=8821.20
mulitply that x my new carreer field's multiplier (5.5)
------------------------------------------------------
=48516.60 is what I should have been paid. ( Before the usual -28% then 1/2 up front the rest among the term of enlistment crap)
HOWEVER, what really happened is the AF raised these bonuses to get all these people into these critically manned carreer fields. Then, for almost a year, the AF puts all these people's bonuses on hold, gradually paying us a little at a time. I was paid 13 grand up front. Then, we all get notice that everyones contract is being backdated to reflect what they call obligated service, because of the extension that THEY MADE US PUT IN IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! and we were not going to get the rest of our bonus! Someone (Col.) decided that if they went back and did this, they would save the AF millions! Of course I raise the BS flag. I was told by MPF (military personnell flight) that "yes, the Air Force lied on your contract. Because of this, you can get out of it if you want. All you have to do is pay back the 13 grand we paid you (plus the 28% tax), and serve the remainder of the 20 month extension" WHAT! This is the biggest scam ever. Not only were they getting out of paying this money, they were now forcing us to serve an extension we didn't want to sign up for in the first place. They are filling all these critically manned positions for FREE! Of course I had already spent my initial 13 grand, and don't have it to pay back. So, I'm serving my whole 4 year contract for just 13 grand. Needless to say, this will be my LAST enlistment in ANY military branch. So much for our core values, integrity first, service before self, and excellence in all we do , huh? The funny thing is, after dropping like 80% of the enlisted force's bonuses, they raise they bonuses for almost all the officer ranks!