joltdudeuc

iTrader: (6)

http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv...BrandChannel=0

GM is done. It's only a matter of time, no matter the bailout, they are going down.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsO...4A93T120081110


DHL as a domestic company is done. Only lasted like 5 years or something after buying Airborne Express. I was hoping they'd bring solid competition to the oligopoly of Fedex and UPS in the United States, but that's not going to happen now.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsO...4A936V20081110

I hope I can score something if they liquidate...

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsO...4A92FM20081110

Lets see... Big huge company sucks and is losing money... lets bail them out... still losing money after MASSIVE bailout, and we're gonna bail them out AGAIN. Real smart. Lets just keep throwing money at it...

medicSTi

iTrader: (22)

It's crazy. We need domestic jobs, but Americans need to understand that unless they get educated, their wages will suck. Big companies will either die or go over seas if we continue to let unions dictate the wages.

I walked through Target today, looking at all sorts of goods... And REALLY REALLY struggled to find anything not made in China. Only 1 of 45 things we picked up and checked was made in the US and that was the Jack Daniels.

I want American made goods!

Superglue WRX

GM isn't going down. The gobment won't let them fail. It would cause a huge domino effect and just **** everything up.

Jabberwocky

iTrader: (3)

Honda is said to have a new line of hybrids for around 19K. GM has enough money to last till mid-2009 then it's over. How much tax payer money are we going to spend to bailout GM? I don't see them as being competitive long term. If Honda decides to "break-even" on their new hybrids, then they can drive GM out of business. GM just cannot compete.

SilverScoober02

You guys realize that if GM seriously does go down the US just lost at least 1 million jobs? Although I don't know if I am for or against any federal bailouts, I know that Michigan will be the hardest hit if something like that happens.

And for what? For the last 3-4 years the quality of GM products has been back and forth in with Toyota in the annual vehicle value survey with Honda beating out the both of them, but there is still a belief that GM does not put out quality products, which is false.

When you guys go out to buy a new car (Not a subaru cause they are first choice for me too!?!?!) do you even consider an American made vehicle?

GM going under will affect everyone in this country negatively, there is no doubt about it.

BTW the new Chevy Volt plug in hybrid is seriously in my consideration when it comes out....

Jabberwocky

iTrader: (3)

GM has plenty of assets to sell to keep afloat. Saab, Saturn, and several other companies that they own. GM will get bought out by someone before it will truly close shop. GM has lots of valuable pieces, like its sucessful overseas operations.

They just have not been competitive. It isn't good that anyone loses their job, even worse when so many people do. However, we can't take taxpayer money to subsidize GM in perpetuity.

GM has been singing the same old song about how they are going to change their game plan for a long time now. The government has given them lots o money already to build greener cars and etc. Yet the Japanese still beat them to the hybrid.

sigma pi

iTrader: (6)

why you wont get parts for it


it will be like daewoo

which GM bought funny enough

joltdudeuc

iTrader: (6)

Anheuser-Busch is about to be owned by a company in Belgium... so now I can say so all those joe six packs how they are drinking some unamerican beer

We can things made in america, we just have to work at wages that are competitive against other countries

joltdudeuc

iTrader: (6)

It's a matter of time. By bailing them out all we are doing is letting the fat cats make out clean by buying them time. Eventually they WILL fold, they cannot make money anymore, they business plan sucks and the unions are going to lose themselves some pretty good jobs.

This all wouldn't have happened if GM diversified their production, told Unions to **** off at key periods, and if they put quality above raising their share value.

psoper

Or else negotiate trade agreements that guaranty equivalent worker rights and environmental protections between trade partners.

joltdudeuc

iTrader: (6)

You are going to pay for a Volt?! It's going to cost nearly 50k by the time it's done with the markups. I'd rather just pay the 60k and get the new Tesla Sedan, which is going to be made right here in San Jose, CA At least I'll get over 200miles to the charge in an all electric, and not fund anything to GM.


GM might make better cars today or in the last 5 years, but they made ****ty cars for over 20-30 years, and that's what I'm talking about it. It's much too late, the American car industry has been too slow to react.

joltdudeuc

iTrader: (6)

What do you mean by that? Pay worker overseas as good as we do here or force their govts to do better for them?

I don't think we can do either, and it's not our govt responsibility honestly. I hate the corporate structure today, but I understand why they are moving factories and labor overseas... cheaper is cheaper, if it gets expensive somewhere, they will move somewhere else.

psoper

So, by your reasoning, any country that has legal slave labor and/or doesn't mind a few workers dying because of lack of safety provisions should be doing all of our manufacturing for us? after all- cheaper is cheaper...

No, I actually do think that we- at least in our role as a "world leader" and trading partner- have a moral obligation to influence other countries to treat their workers fairly, protect the environment and anything else we can do to make the world a better place.

Signing trade agreements that lack labor and environmental protections is morally equivalent to pissing on everyone in our work force before laying them all off- pretty much exactly what's been happening here the last 20+ years or so...

joltdudeuc

iTrader: (6)

My point is this:

Trade agreements are govt to govt deals. Most companies will setup shop wherever they want to lest it's a country we have some embargo against, but that doesn't always stop them anyways. I'm sure you can still get a Coca-Cola ANYWHERE, probably even in Cuba and Saddam Iraq.

Companies go in and they bring jobs to these countries, and they pay them better than other jobs available in those countries... sure, compared to here it's not much, but if company x wasn't there at all I'd argue that would be worse.

Now, I feel that companies should be safe, they should setup and operate as such, but companies aren't going to tell another country's govt what to do.

I mean, I'll tell you from experience, India is a joke. They still have a caste system, and they pretty much don't care that much about their huge poverty stricken population. This a country that prides itself as "the biggest democracy" in the world... The conditions there are horrible, especially in the big metropolitan areas. I've seen it first hand... They have huge banking, huge manufacturing, growing auto industry... and they **** on their own people. No company can tell them how to run their country, just won't work.

At the end of the day, our current corporate system is flawed, and all about share holder wealth. They will always go wherever it's cheaper. Not much our govt can do about that.

SilverScoober02

GM is not going to go under....It won't happen. They need enough money to get them through to 2010 and their cost saving measures will start to take effect and that's when they predict the vehicle market will come back. The problem is indeed the Unions and finally they are starting to deal with them like they should have been. There is no way they can get rid of them at this point because they have been ingrained in the industry so long and have too much power.

The domino effect would be catastrophic to the US economy. You're talking about up to 2 million jobs in the auto companies and suppliers alone....And those suppliers don't just make parts for GM they also make parts for all the other automakers that have plants in the US. (Toyota, Ford, Chrysler, Honda) So a supplier going under negatively affects one of those automakers as well. Did you know that one of the largest customers of the US cattle industry is GM? All the leather seats they put into cars. How will that affect them? You see where this is going? I hated the bank bailout, but I don't think AIG going under would have had the same effect as GM going under. I also don't think GM shoulders the entirety of the blame for the situation they are in, like the financial institutions do. The reason GM is asking for money from the federal government in the form of a loan or "bailout" is because of the credit crisis and not being able to get a loan from a financial institution.