Magish

iTrader: (2)

This evening I attended a lecture given by Thomas L. Friedman, the New York Times columnist and economist, on his new book "Hot, Flat, and Crowded". I read "The World is Flat" a few years ago, and was very impressed by it. I haven't gotten around to his new work, but I plan on picking it up in the next couple days.

The focus of his lecture, and his new book as well, is why he believes it is absolutely necessary that we implement a carbon tax (or cap and trade system, I presume) as soon as possible. While the ecological and climatic benefits of such an action are quite obvious, was really captured me was the fact that he actually spent most his time focusing on the economic benefits. Through a carbon tax, he implored, we could create a new economic revolution in America. By finally driving up the cost of old, dirty, and inefficient technologies to prices that accurately reflect their real cost, new "green" technologies that are so desperately needed will begin to make economic sense for consumers. Like many other technologies, as volume rises prices drop according to the price/volume curve.

The fact is, his argument makes sense. If we want to avoid major crises down the road, and provide our children with the same standard of living we currently enjoy we need to act now. The combined impacts of global climate change, overpopulation, and globalization (specifically, the increasing number of people who already have or strive for an American standard of living) will create a perfect storm in the future if we do not act now and use the market to encourage large scale "green" innovation right here in the US of A. The volatile nature of energy markets means that without a steady, but high, price floor, future green technologies do not stand a chance until it will be too late. Yes, new taxes suck. But I've been convinced that a carbon tax is necessary if we wish to maintain our status in the world and standard of living.

Admittedly, I do not know what I believe in regard to which is better: a flat carbon tax, or a new carbon cap and trade system.

/rant.

Here are a couple articles on carbon taxation after a quick google serach:
Big Oil Shifts on Global Warming

• Energy execs even support greenhouse gas legislation, be it a carbon tax or cap and trade

To tax or trade?


Discuss.

Superglue WRX

No new taxes please. Especially on this. If environmentalists want to be appreciated, they'll stay out of people's pockets.

It's time some heads got together and proposed a flat tax plan for this country. No more IRS, 1040EZ's, deductables, tax brackets, none of that.

We are drowning in tax codes. There has to be a better way.

Magish

iTrader: (2)

Then how do you promote the kind of innovation we need if we are to remain a world power in the future?

This is not an environmental issue, IMO, it is a economic and moral issue. This is about setting the country up today for a prosperous economy tomorrow. This is about solving future crises and promoting economic growth in one fair swoop.

The fact is that even if you still have your head in the sand regarding climate change, overpopulation and the realities of a globalized world are MASSIVE problems soon to be heading our way.

And regarding the flat tax: if someone can make it work, great. Lets do it. This is a different issue.

medicSTi

iTrader: (22)

...So you support a carbon tax because "it is an economic and moral issue" and believe that "This is not an environmental issue"...?

What kind of liberal bs is that??! You are basically saying you are supporting a tax to prevent a future economic disaster... and using a carbon tax is the way to go because the flavor of the day is Green Technology...

Why not just be honest and create a tax for Democratic Rule?

Note his stated Goal for the Carbon Tax:
1. Remaining a World Power

What the goal should be for a Carbon Tax:
1. Preserving Nature and Healthy Life

Magish

iTrader: (2)

Okay, I wasn't exactly clear.

In my opinion, this is not an environmental issue in the traditional sense of the word. It is not about saving ten trees from being cut down in Berkley, nor is it about making sure there are an extra one hundred salmon swimming in the Snake river.

While global climate change is an environmental issue, the more important and tangible effects relate to moral and economic issues. Nature and the earth will be fine. Its us we have to worry about. For example, sea level rise (which is probably inevitable now to some extent) will disproportionately effect poor countries like Bangladesh. This is a moral issue because thousands upon thousands of people stand to lose everything due to sea level rise. It is also an economic issue because inevitably foreign (read:US) aid will be given to these countries which then affects our budget (even if the total pales in comparison to the stimulus ). Then add in the effects sea level rise could have on our own coastlines, as well as the effects of more frequent and powerful hurricanes and...

World power and prestige are also important. I want to see my country continue to be a world power, and more than anything I want my kids to enjoy the same standard of living I enjoyed growing up. That is important to me and is an impossibility unless we change (yeah, I used it) course.

I don't see green technology as the flavor of the day. I see it as an absolutely necessary part of our future. Coal, oil, and natural gas are not going to be available for use forever. Even though we have vast coal reserves, as well as massive oil shale deposits that we one day may be able to tap I don't believe that they will forever be moral or environmentally acceptable. IT was also a "flavor of the day" that brought us great economic prosperity. "ET" (environmental technology) can be the next big boom to keep us on top. Someone, somewhere is going to prosper immensely from the "green revolution" and I hope that through a carbon tax or cap and trade system we can ensure that it is in America.

Irish_car_B0mb

iTrader: (3)

More nukes, more tanks, more planes.

which is why the tax is not needed. once we run out we wont have to worry about burning anymore.

Magish

iTrader: (2)

Is that the world you want to live in? The one you want your kid's to grow up in? War may be a reality, but massive new defense spending is not at all necessary right now.


But why not use it to our economic advantage instead, using the American spirit of innovation to create an economic boom while at the same time helping slow down the effects of global climate change?

Irish_car_B0mb

iTrader: (3)

why not? we would pry spend the same on trying to clean **** up. so why not spend it on defending ourselves and nto get taxed for driving more or running the heater when its cold outside.

and i disagree, many countries are nto happy with us. this is the best time to build defense. our economy effects others more reason for them to bring harm to our country, build up now clean later when we have the time and the defense.

this si the world my kids grow up in. its the world we grow up in. and until someone can build a GIGANTIC ionic breeze this isnt gonna happen over night so it will be a problem for generations. but why bring the burden of more taxes on the american publics shoulders.

are we really that advantageous right now? is more taxing really neccesary?
why should people who are worried abotu getting their next meal be worried about if the air in alaska is clean. or if the river running down the bayou in some swamp is clear..

is there no other way to get cleaning up. the process has started. its not gonna happen overnight. its gonna cost billions and billions to clean **** up. find another way. no matter who you lay the price on they pass the buck. come to me with a beter solution than more taxing and i will listen until then im cool with the current situation...i can still see the stars from my house

Magish

iTrader: (2)

We billions upon billions of dollars on defense each year, and you think we need more to fight a bunch of backward douche-bags playing in a big sandbox? I'm sorry, that is ridiculous. The cold war is over. We have the strongest military in the world, and making it bigger and more powerful is not going to help mend relationships with anyone who could really hurt us.

I have more hope for the future. As I said before, war will always be present but we can do our part to minimize it.

Perhaps not right this moment, but yes ultimately I believe I carbon tax will be adventagous. Obviously people have more pressing concerns right now, but as the recession eases in the next year or two we should begin to focus on long term goals.

The fact is that whether the air is clean in Alaska, or the river is clean in the Mississippi river delta affects us all. Okay, maybe not the Alaksa part since nobody really lives up there . But lets take the river delta. Pollution in the Mississippi river is what has caused the massive dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico. No fish = no fishing = no employment for fishermen = unemployed fishermen needing pubic assistance = you getting taxed more and/or our national debt growing larger.

Superglue WRX

Taxes have a negative benefit on the private sector. If you really believe this will change the way we power the country, then the sensible thing to do is provide tax breaks for using less fossil fuels.

Tax breaks are much more benificial to the individual and more motivational as well. This is what sparks innovation, not government run programs with whatever agenda is popular for the period.

Thomas L. Friedman, you're doing it wrong.

medicSTi

iTrader: (22)

Sea level rising... Okay Al Gore. Global warming has been busted for years- that scam has nearly ended it's run on the people's ignorance.

I'm all for green tech for the sake of health and keeping the world clean because it's the right thing to do, not because cow farts are causing climate change... :LOL:

medicSTi

iTrader: (22)

iPhone double post...

ipozestu

iTrader: (18)

You can tax the carbon in my poo.

Magish

iTrader: (2)

By who?

FW Motorsports