Hawaii soldier refuses to deploy to Iraq
06-06-2006, 08:42 PM
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Hawaii soldier refuses to deploy to Iraq
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13173792/from/RS.1/
How do you guys feel about this?
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HONOLULU - An Army officer from Honolulu has said that he will refuse to go to the war in Iraq when the rest of his unit deploys later this month. First Lt. Ehren Watada is with a Stryker unit from Fort Lewis, Wash.
He told his superiors that he opposes the war.
He is believed to be the first commissioned officer to refuse deployment to Iraq.
He faces court martial charges unless the Army allows him to resign his commission, according to a statement given to the media.
Watada enlisted in the Army in 2003 and is the son of Bob Watada, the former director of the state Campaign Spending Commission.
Lt. Watada has scheduled a news conference for Wednesday at the state Capitol.
He told his superiors that he opposes the war.
He is believed to be the first commissioned officer to refuse deployment to Iraq.
He faces court martial charges unless the Army allows him to resign his commission, according to a statement given to the media.
Watada enlisted in the Army in 2003 and is the son of Bob Watada, the former director of the state Campaign Spending Commission.
Lt. Watada has scheduled a news conference for Wednesday at the state Capitol.
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06-06-2006, 08:45 PM
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Does the Army often allow officers to resign their commissions?
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06-06-2006, 10:08 PM
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gpatmac will have to chime in.
But I think this officer's choice exemplifies that fact that soldiers can choose between punishment of refusing to deploy, or the unmatched and rare possibility of death. The punishment can be justified on a personal level and isn't as severe as i'd like it to be. It's not like they're dragged on the planes kicking and screaming. This proves that all soldiers are, in fact, making a conscience decision to serve all the way to the end, should "the end" unfortunately happen in the sandbox.
But I think this officer's choice exemplifies that fact that soldiers can choose between punishment of refusing to deploy, or the unmatched and rare possibility of death. The punishment can be justified on a personal level and isn't as severe as i'd like it to be. It's not like they're dragged on the planes kicking and screaming. This proves that all soldiers are, in fact, making a conscience decision to serve all the way to the end, should "the end" unfortunately happen in the sandbox.
06-07-2006, 02:16 AM
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Wonder if he will pull the old Conscientious Objector routine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector
Which is a bunch of B.S. you went through training, became a commissioned Officer...and NOW...when you get sent to the front...you don't want to fight...or believe in the cause? WTF? He friggin joined in 2003....he knew the war was going on....what did he think was going to happen?
I've been in since 1993, and have been to the region on 3 seperate occassions, and each time we ended up in a "combat" situation. (Which for me entails sitting at General Quarters while our ship launched cruise missiles or during 2003, Strike Fighter aircraft from the deck of an aircraft carrier).
I don't like the war...or the administrations reasoning behind it (aka BOLD FACE LIES). BUT, we have a job to do there. We are committed to it, and need to see it through to the end and get Iraq on it's feet and stabilized...no if's, and's or but's about it.
Me being active duty Navy, you might think I'm safe and sound, but no, we've been getting deployed to support and relieve the army so that they can recouperate and rotate back in.
We get like 30 days worth of weapons training, then it's in you go. We're Navy...this isn't our element...or what we signed on for...but we go where the Navy sends us....so IF I get told I have to go...I will suck it up and go do my job for better or worse.
Have known a few people to be injured or killed in Iraq Dieing there is a very REAL possibility and definately not RARE...tune in to CNN and you see at least every other day that one or more soldiers has been killed.
So you're going to tell me that this dip **** (pardon the french) that joined the Army...never thought that he would go into battle?
I hear Leavenworth has a few open cells....maybe he needs time to reflect on his decision. May seem harsh....but I don't care.
As far as resigning the commission....I know from experience, as I prepare service member's separation (Expiration of service and Legal Administrative Separations as well as retirements) that in certain legal cases (where an officer has commited some act that is deemed conduct unbecoming) that they are allowed to resign their commission. Which is B.S. yet again....where an Enlisted person might commit the same crime, and be totally raked over the proverbial coals...it's a double standard that always pisses me off.
I'll be following this story.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector
Which is a bunch of B.S. you went through training, became a commissioned Officer...and NOW...when you get sent to the front...you don't want to fight...or believe in the cause? WTF? He friggin joined in 2003....he knew the war was going on....what did he think was going to happen?
I've been in since 1993, and have been to the region on 3 seperate occassions, and each time we ended up in a "combat" situation. (Which for me entails sitting at General Quarters while our ship launched cruise missiles or during 2003, Strike Fighter aircraft from the deck of an aircraft carrier).
I don't like the war...or the administrations reasoning behind it (aka BOLD FACE LIES). BUT, we have a job to do there. We are committed to it, and need to see it through to the end and get Iraq on it's feet and stabilized...no if's, and's or but's about it.
Me being active duty Navy, you might think I'm safe and sound, but no, we've been getting deployed to support and relieve the army so that they can recouperate and rotate back in.
We get like 30 days worth of weapons training, then it's in you go. We're Navy...this isn't our element...or what we signed on for...but we go where the Navy sends us....so IF I get told I have to go...I will suck it up and go do my job for better or worse.
Have known a few people to be injured or killed in Iraq Dieing there is a very REAL possibility and definately not RARE...tune in to CNN and you see at least every other day that one or more soldiers has been killed.
So you're going to tell me that this dip **** (pardon the french) that joined the Army...never thought that he would go into battle?
I hear Leavenworth has a few open cells....maybe he needs time to reflect on his decision. May seem harsh....but I don't care.
As far as resigning the commission....I know from experience, as I prepare service member's separation (Expiration of service and Legal Administrative Separations as well as retirements) that in certain legal cases (where an officer has commited some act that is deemed conduct unbecoming) that they are allowed to resign their commission. Which is B.S. yet again....where an Enlisted person might commit the same crime, and be totally raked over the proverbial coals...it's a double standard that always pisses me off.
I'll be following this story.
Last edited by RedStage; 06-07-2006 at 02:28 AM.
06-07-2006, 06:24 AM
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This guy what a schmuck... Granted he has the choice with consequenses, but how do you want to be remembered? What as disappointment to those he serves with.
WHen I was in the service it was you and the guy next to you. You take care of each other. It's probably better off. Otherwiase he may be one of those guys who'd roll a grenade into someones tent.
I am a little confused though it says, "he enlisted..." yet he's commissioned? I always thought that officers should be promoted and commissioned from enlisted ranks. I always respected the prior enlisted more, and feel that they respected me more.
WHen I was in the service it was you and the guy next to you. You take care of each other. It's probably better off. Otherwiase he may be one of those guys who'd roll a grenade into someones tent.
I am a little confused though it says, "he enlisted..." yet he's commissioned? I always thought that officers should be promoted and commissioned from enlisted ranks. I always respected the prior enlisted more, and feel that they respected me more.
06-07-2006, 10:52 AM
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The term "Enlisted" can simply mean the process of joining hte military in some context...be it as an enlisted person, or enlisting in a branch of service and receiving and Officer's commission.
And I agree. Personnel that start their carees as enlisted, work their way up and get a commission, always know where they came from and have a better understanding of what it means to be an enlisted person. The respect they have and receive is greater than the "never worked a day" colloege brats that get commissioned and come to the command with no clue about anything and think that thier "Butter Bars" mean that they rule the world.
And I agree. Personnel that start their carees as enlisted, work their way up and get a commission, always know where they came from and have a better understanding of what it means to be an enlisted person. The respect they have and receive is greater than the "never worked a day" colloege brats that get commissioned and come to the command with no clue about anything and think that thier "Butter Bars" mean that they rule the world.
06-07-2006, 02:48 PM
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Man, this is all they're talking about on the radio here in Honolulu...
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06-07-2006, 03:03 PM
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I don't blame him. I've been in the Army for three years now and I would go if I had to, but i don't agree with the war and I don't want to support it by being in Iraq. I feel that he needs to be punished, but if he is willing to take a personal punishment vs. going to fight for something that he doesn't believe in and possibly dying, then i think he should be able to make that choise. Is he a coward for not wanting to go? That depends on his motives. If he is afraid to die, then yes, maybe he is a coward. But if he doesn't believe in the war and made a mistake by joining the Army, i think that going to Iraq would be cowardly, he would be doing something that he doesn't believe in. He should have thought of this earlier, but he didn't and now he has the chance to stand up he better do this for himself, F--- the Army and thier shady motives, he needs to follow his beliefs.
06-07-2006, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by IS2Scooby
Man, this is all they're talking about on the radio here in Honolulu...
06-07-2006, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by gijow
I don't blame him. I've been in the Army for three years now and I would go if I had to, but i don't agree with the war and I don't want to support it by being in Iraq. I feel that he needs to be punished, but if he is willing to take a personal punishment vs. going to fight for something that he doesn't believe in and possibly dying, then i think he should be able to make that choise. Is he a coward for not wanting to go? That depends on his motives. If he is afraid to die, then yes, maybe he is a coward. But if he doesn't believe in the war and made a mistake by joining the Army, i think that going to Iraq would be cowardly, he would be doing something that he doesn't believe in. He should have thought of this earlier, but he didn't and now he has the chance to stand up he better do this for himself, F--- the Army and thier shady motives, he needs to follow his beliefs.
06-07-2006, 03:24 PM
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I agree with you Redstage. The military is doing it's job and I support that. The government is taking advantage of it's soldiers by asking them to die for it's greed. It's something that you don't really see from the outside, but once you join, you see it all over. He made a commitment to the military and found out that he made a mistake. I support him 100% but I don't think it should go unpunished.
06-07-2006, 03:28 PM
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Agree. It will be interesting to see what course of action the Army takes. They are going to set a precedent with whatever action they decide.
The only thing with I agree with about Iraq is the need to take Hussein out of power....but has it really improved anything?
Did G.W. actually think that just removing him would make all the bad guys disappear? I honestly think that this is what he thought...since he seems to live in a dillusional little world.
The only thing with I agree with about Iraq is the need to take Hussein out of power....but has it really improved anything?
Did G.W. actually think that just removing him would make all the bad guys disappear? I honestly think that this is what he thought...since he seems to live in a dillusional little world.
06-07-2006, 03:32 PM
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I'd say Saddam was right. He had to rule with at iron fist. The people only recognize strength and weakness. All of these little groups were lurking around Iraq for the longest time. They were unable to rise up because of Saddam. It will turn out just like Somalia, watch.
06-07-2006, 03:34 PM
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/\ that's a damn good point. Considering the nations in that region have never gotten along, and have pretty much been ruled the same way for generations....
From the global stand point Hussein was evil....but it does look like (when you mention it the way you did) that it may have been an "necessary" evil.....
From the global stand point Hussein was evil....but it does look like (when you mention it the way you did) that it may have been an "necessary" evil.....