A few soild quotes to think about...
07-20-2005, 10:16 PM
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A few soild quotes to think about...
Originally Posted by Jean-François Revel
"Democracy tends to ignore, even deny, threats to its existence because it loathes doing what is needed to counter them,". . . It awakens only when the danger becomes deadly, imminent, evident. By then, either there is too little time left for it to save itself, or the price of survival has become crushingly high."
Originally Posted by Jean-François Revel
"Democratic civilization is the first in history to blame itself because another power is trying to destroy it."
Originally Posted by Jean-François Revel
"Clearly, a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself."
And yes, I’m a Jean-François Revel fan. I recommend you read his books. He’s the only Frenchman with a decent head on his shoulders.
07-20-2005, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ****head Mayor of London
Under foreign occupation and denied a right to vote, denied the right to run your own affairs ... I suspect that if it had happened here in England we would have produced a lot of suicide bombers ourselves," said Livingstone.
"But I don't just denounce suicide bombers. I denounce those governments which use indiscriminate slaughter to advance their foreign policy."
"But I don't just denounce suicide bombers. I denounce those governments which use indiscriminate slaughter to advance their foreign policy."
BTW...fixed!
VVVVVVVVV
Originally Posted by What Revel meant to say
"Democracts tend to ignore, even deny, threats to their existence because they loathes doing what is needed to counter them,". . . They awaken only when the danger becomes deadly, imminent, evident. By then, either there is too little time left for Democrats to save themselves, or the price of survival has become crushingly high."
Originally Posted by What Revel meant to say
"Democrats are the first in history to blame themselves because another power is trying to destroy them."
Originally Posted by What Revel meant to say
"Clearly, a Democrat that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself."
07-21-2005, 10:57 AM
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...so do you mean to say that a representative democracy is doomed as soon as it is begun? What form of government do you and Revel suggest to be better???
07-21-2005, 11:37 AM
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None. You expected me to side with Socialism, didn't you? The faults of Democracy don't come close to the faults of socialism, communism, etc.
But you have to wonder what spans the characteristics he suggests in his quotes. If you think its Republicans and Conservatives as a whole then you're out to lunch. The answer is a change in the mindset of out people, not a change in government.
But you have to wonder what spans the characteristics he suggests in his quotes. If you think its Republicans and Conservatives as a whole then you're out to lunch. The answer is a change in the mindset of out people, not a change in government.
07-21-2005, 01:00 PM
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To be honest, the quotes you posted from Revel make him sound like an advocate of an absolute power type of government.
I also think that his point of view, which from these quotes seems to be that this vornerablility due to democracy is a bad thing, is wrong. While it may seem that being less willing to fight it out is bad, I really think it's the correct way. Draw comparisons to fights between individuals or gangs/groups, etc. It's better to be reluctant to fight and only to do so when attacked than to go around pounding anyone who threatens your man-hood. This is a human value that has been admired in people long before democracy came about; fighting SHOULD be a last resort, even on an international level. I don't think anyone really disagrees with that. So the discussion then becomes when DO you resort to the last resort; where is the line drawn. And I believe that in our post-9/11 paranoia our country has aired a little on the side of fight first, ask questions later; rather than waiting for the oportune time to take action.
I also think that his point of view, which from these quotes seems to be that this vornerablility due to democracy is a bad thing, is wrong. While it may seem that being less willing to fight it out is bad, I really think it's the correct way. Draw comparisons to fights between individuals or gangs/groups, etc. It's better to be reluctant to fight and only to do so when attacked than to go around pounding anyone who threatens your man-hood. This is a human value that has been admired in people long before democracy came about; fighting SHOULD be a last resort, even on an international level. I don't think anyone really disagrees with that. So the discussion then becomes when DO you resort to the last resort; where is the line drawn. And I believe that in our post-9/11 paranoia our country has aired a little on the side of fight first, ask questions later; rather than waiting for the oportune time to take action.
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