Declaration of Independence Banned at Calif School
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Declaration of Independence Banned at Calif School
This is taking separation of church and state too far IMHO...
http://www.reuters.com/printerFriend...toryID=6911883
Doesn't really surprise me in the slightest that this happened in the Bay Area.
http://www.reuters.com/printerFriend...toryID=6911883
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A California teacher has been barred by his school from giving students documents from American history that refer to God -- including the Declaration of Independence.
Steven Williams, a fifth-grade teacher at Stevens Creek School in the San Francisco Bay area suburb of Cupertino, sued for discrimination on Monday, claiming he had been singled out for censorship by principal Patricia Vidmar because he is a Christian.
"It's a fact of American history that our founders were religious men, and to hide this fact from young fifth-graders in the name of political correctness is outrageous and shameful," said Williams' attorney, Terry Thompson.
Steven Williams, a fifth-grade teacher at Stevens Creek School in the San Francisco Bay area suburb of Cupertino, sued for discrimination on Monday, claiming he had been singled out for censorship by principal Patricia Vidmar because he is a Christian.
"It's a fact of American history that our founders were religious men, and to hide this fact from young fifth-graders in the name of political correctness is outrageous and shameful," said Williams' attorney, Terry Thompson.
Doesn't really surprise me in the slightest that this happened in the Bay Area.
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That really is taking it too far. That teacher needs to reevaluate why it is he teaches, because the Declaration is something every American should read, it is intrinsic to the definition of what America is.
The last comment in the article, however, is not taking it too far. The phrase 'under God' should be taken out of the pledge. And a court thought so too...but the supreme court won't hear the case?!?! Bulls***...they should hear the case, and remove the phrase from the pledge. The freedom of religion we enjoy in this country extends to atheism and agnosticism (sp?) as well as all religions, and the phrase 'under god' clearly goes against an atheist's beliefs.
The last comment in the article, however, is not taking it too far. The phrase 'under God' should be taken out of the pledge. And a court thought so too...but the supreme court won't hear the case?!?! Bulls***...they should hear the case, and remove the phrase from the pledge. The freedom of religion we enjoy in this country extends to atheism and agnosticism (sp?) as well as all religions, and the phrase 'under god' clearly goes against an atheist's beliefs.
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I just love how our founding fathers didn't even put "Under God" in the declaration but that's what people say when they defend it.
It was added after the big red scare when the commies were going to come and get us.
I don't blame the teacher for what he did. I think it's wrong for our government to leave those words in there when a huge percentage of loyal americans don't believe in "God."
It was added after the big red scare when the commies were going to come and get us.
I don't blame the teacher for what he did. I think it's wrong for our government to leave those words in there when a huge percentage of loyal americans don't believe in "God."
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Originally Posted by ericdared81
I just love how our founding fathers didn't even put "Under God" in the declaration but that's what people say when they defend it.
It was added after the big red scare when the commies were going to come and get us.
I don't blame the teacher for what he did. I think it's wrong for our government to leave those words in there when a huge percentage of loyal americans don't believe in "God."
It was added after the big red scare when the commies were going to come and get us.
I don't blame the teacher for what he did. I think it's wrong for our government to leave those words in there when a huge percentage of loyal americans don't believe in "God."
It sounds to me the teacher is simply trying to show the values held by our country's founders. If a few of the founders held muslim beliefs and values, wouldn't that be relevant? He is sighting specific documents written by them, so why censor it?
Oh, and by the way, the large majority of Americans believe in God.
Oh, and by the way, the large majority of Americans believe in God.
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Originally Posted by VIBEELEVEN
Damn athiests are whiney
As for the "majority" of americans that believe in "God," Hella, do you think they believe in your "God"?
I just think it's interesting that everyone that believes in God isn't saying anything about God being government documents. But the people that don't believe in a God are the only one's are actually trying to uphold the value that it shouldn't be there.
And I still haven't heard an answer from any christian or catholic about if they would have a problem with Allah being stated in our pledges and declarations.
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This has nothing to do with religion.
This Leftist principal simply hates America so much, she is preventing the very teaching of American documents in her gulag.
May she rot in Hell.
This Leftist principal simply hates America so much, she is preventing the very teaching of American documents in her gulag.
May she rot in Hell.
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Originally Posted by ericdared81
As for the "majority" of americans that believe in "God," Hella, do you think they believe in your "God"?
I just think it's interesting that everyone that believes in God isn't saying anything about God being government documents. But the people that don't believe in a God are the only one's are actually trying to uphold the value that it shouldn't be there.
And I still haven't heard an answer from any christian or catholic about if they would have a problem with Allah being stated in our pledges and declarations.
I just think it's interesting that everyone that believes in God isn't saying anything about God being government documents. But the people that don't believe in a God are the only one's are actually trying to uphold the value that it shouldn't be there.
And I still haven't heard an answer from any christian or catholic about if they would have a problem with Allah being stated in our pledges and declarations.
People are trying to defend the role that God and religion have played in our government, and I think they should. I think the values of the people who founded our unique government (and the population that built the nation) are important, and religion and beliefs are core to understanding the intent and context of thier words.
No-one is talking about adding religion to the government as far as I know, but I hear about the ACLU trying (and succeeding) to remove religious words and symbols from government (i.e. city seals, documents, etc). They won't be happy until they've broken off every cross from every war memorial.
The intent of the separation of church and state was to keep government from interfering with religion, like the establishment of an "official church." The founding fathers would be rolling in their graves if they knew what was happening now.
Taking all references of religion out of our government is to ignore history.
The end.
Thanks for playing.
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Originally Posted by HellaDumb
My faith is in Christianity.
The intent of the separation of church and state was to keep government from interfering with religion, like the establishment of an "official church."
The intent of the separation of church and state was to keep government from interfering with religion, like the establishment of an "official church."
Religion can be a wonderful thing. I'm glad people have principals to live thier lives by, and more power to them. I just don't think it's right that I can't pledge my country or read the declaration without having a "God" that I (and many others) don't believe in.
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Once again, nobody hears all the details... what were the "other documents" that the teacher was giving students? What's the rest of the story? What other things has this teacher/prinicpal/school done in the recent past that may have contributed to this? Let's not rush to judgement so often fellas.
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Originally Posted by ericdared81
Well then your lucky that your christian when it comes to this. And because of that you fail to realize that by only having "God" in our declaration, pledge and all other documents that we are actually setting up a "official church" one that only believes in "God," therefore they ignore all other religions that don't have the same beliefs.
Religion can be a wonderful thing. I'm glad people have principals to live thier lives by, and more power to them. I just don't think it's right that I can't pledge my country or read the declaration without having a "God" that I (and many others) don't believe in.
Religion can be a wonderful thing. I'm glad people have principals to live thier lives by, and more power to them. I just don't think it's right that I can't pledge my country or read the declaration without having a "God" that I (and many others) don't believe in.
Let's not re-write history.
Last edited by HellaDumb; Nov 27, 2004 at 08:32 AM.
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Originally Posted by ericdared81
... And because of that you fail to realize that by only having "God" in our declaration, pledge and all other documents that we are actually setting up a "official church" one that only believes in "God," therefore they ignore all other religions that don't have the same beliefs.
I just don't think it's right that I can't pledge my country or read the declaration without having a "God" that I (and many others) don't believe in.
I just don't think it's right that I can't pledge my country or read the declaration without having a "God" that I (and many others) don't believe in.
No one has ever been forced to say "under God" while reciting the Pledge.
This principal is an Anti American zealot that is using the "separation of church & religion" argument to promote her propaganda.
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Originally Posted by Oaf
There is nothing in the Constitution that says there must be a separation of religion and government.
Originally Posted by Oaf
No one has ever been forced to say "under God" while reciting the Pledge.
Originally Posted by Oaf
This principal is an Anti American zealot that is using the "separation of church & religion" argument to promote her propaganda.
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this is gh3y. it's just some dumbass with their "i'll be damned" attitude...
i wouldn't quite classify myself as an athiest, but i definitely don't go to church or belong to any organized religion. I never had any problems saying "under god" during the pledge or allegiance in school. i wouldn't have a problem with my kids (if i had any) being exposed to that either. hell, i'll probably take them to church a few times when they're old enough to make up their minds on whether they would like to attend or not.
i wouldn't quite classify myself as an athiest, but i definitely don't go to church or belong to any organized religion. I never had any problems saying "under god" during the pledge or allegiance in school. i wouldn't have a problem with my kids (if i had any) being exposed to that either. hell, i'll probably take them to church a few times when they're old enough to make up their minds on whether they would like to attend or not.
