I did there budget and also some operations with them. Pretty much 90% of it was classified so no pm or anything else to spread the word. Sorry

 

I appreciate your service but I don't really appreciate your tone on how you've worked with them when others here have not. We have tabbed members of the forum here. Although you may have done their budget in the box, I have merely trained with SOF on many occasions to include airborne operations and air assaults. I still have many friends in the SOF community. I have RI friends in Florida and Benning, I have active and prior SEAL and SF friends. I have even trained with elite from Britian, Germany and Thailand. I still does not make me an expert because I never quite served at that upper-crust level, nor do i know what ever member is doing at every moment in time.

 

I didnt say others did not, but a lot of the things you do with them are only known when you do it. You and others have worked with them adn that is a great experience and I loved every minute of it.
I didnt mean any disrespect or anything. i am just saying that the government uses many different groups, military and non-military, to do there dealings and some are not very civil.

 

And that's the thing with me saying the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. If you're ex SOF or combat arms and join a contractor odds are you still possess the same traits as those from the book Lone Survivor. So when the "not-so-civil" acts of contractors and active operators still don't hold a candle to enemies actions in time of war, the thread title should be "I'm anti-war", not "Blackwater canned"

Because truth is Blackwater really isn’t so bad and does prove useful in wartime when dirty work needs to be done.

 

^^^
i agree, if it seemed like i didnt before, my bad and again no offense was meant to anyone

 

Agreed, Blackwater isn't so bad.........especially when you consider the actions of the enemy. Then they look like saints. I have to disagree with the dirty work comment though. Let's keep dirty work with people still subject to UCMJ and sworn to serve and protect. I love my country but I'll be blantantly honest, if I ever work for Blackwater, it's for the money and nothing else. I'm sure everyone that works for them will say the same thing.

That said, I think it takes a lot away from their organization. They've got some great people but the best guys are the ones who are still on teams(units, ODAs, etc...) and put the uniform on day in-day out. They're the best because they've proven their loyalty and are willing to do "the dirty work" when they have to.

The reason you do SERE school and suffer through the stay at Mackall is so you can show evaluators and peers alike that you can handle the good and bad of dirty work and if necessary, die with valuable intell never told and more importantly, you're pride. Joe 11B private is never asked to hold any secrets to near and dear to America's security but he was never trained to either. It comes with the territory and those who are can handle the pressure.

 

I haven't visited this thread since the day of my last post. Interesting points of views here. Anyway, my buddy who worked not with blackwater but another company, did dignitary protection. He was protecting Iraqis who payed BIG BUCKS for these teams of American Mercenaries. So in this case it's not the U.S. military saying, "ahh, we can use these guys to do our dirty work". As for the Blackwater guys, I can't say, I have no first hand accounts for verification, but I can assume it's somewhat similar. My point being, government officials want these guys over there. They're outsiders, that have no bias on what the hell is going on over there. They can be trusted to not assassinate the people they're protecting.

Also, to reiterate, the people working for these private companies are former U.S. soldiers. Very well trained U.S. soldiers. They are making TOP dollar for their skills. Much more so than they'd make working most anywhere else. For example: A 15 month contract consists of 1 month of vacation per every 3 months of duty. The Co. will fly you, free of cost anywhere you want to go for your vacation time. If you've already done a "tour" with the Co., most dignitary contracts will pay in the neighborhood of $255K. That's for roughly 10 months worth of work. There are some serious tax advantages as well.

Someone mentioned before that a Spec-ops type has the leadership ability to get a job anywhere and succeed at it rather than wasting ones time being a hired gun. I agree. But, these guys know guns, fighting, protecting, killing. It's what they do. Ask them if they'd rather be behind a desk or behind a trigger, especially when being behind a trigger pays more and doesn't require a masters degree.

 

Totally agree. I could make great money working for people other than the Army but until that entails practicing MOUT, shotting on a near daily basis, playing in the woods and the general atmosphere I want nothing else. The best thing is knowing your genuinely serving your country. It'd take a lot of money to pull me from that. I love my job.

 

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...la-home-nation


Update on the contractor issue. Even Gates thinks we need to up the accountability of the contractors.

 

Why now after 3-4 years? It's just another ax for people to grind. People didn't want to make it an issue because it would mean more troops would replace them. And considering they were doing a high-profile job in time of war, they weren't doing bad after all. But things in Iraq have been less than favorable and the idea that the war is winding-down with inevitable troop reductions is in the air. Now people are finally demanding names be taken.

Even Iraq has been jumping the gun. Last time a checked DoS and DoD trump Iraq law. But they've pulled their license? Huh? A witch hunt.

The double-edged sword of fighting wars these days pisses me off so much now. In time of war BW has not lost a single person they’ve been hired to protect. That's impressive. It reminds me of the US Army's decision not to go with Israeli Trophy. APS systems and contracted professionals alike must be puppy-safe now. ****

 

Better late than never. Additionally, there was little fuss about this before because it was relatively sheilded from the public, and so politicians didn't care (because all they care about is votes, and votes aren't affected if people don't know).

You think that the time it's taken to get attention is evidence that it's a witch hunt. I see it as evidence that people are fed up with this crap. Mercenaries have never been a good thing. It's astonishing to me that ex and current military men are not appaled by this countries use of mercenary forces. Can anyone find me an example of a mercenary army being used for a good cause that wound up in a good end?

 

Mercenary forces? BW isn't exactly the French Foreign Legion.

Let's look at the facts here... You need the following to be eligible for BW:

Must be willing and able to deploy for 6 months.
Must be a U.S. Citizen, proof of citizenship is required.
Weight must be proportionate to height.
Must maintain a neat and clean appearance.
Must be in good health and pass a physical test.
Most positions require ability to obtain/maintain a secret or higher clearance.
No history of major illness or mental disorder.
Must have an Honorable Discharge and DD-214.
No felony, violent crimes, spouse or child abuse convictions(NO WAIVERS)
No personal bankruptcy or significant credit problems with past seven (7) years.

It's basically the same people that would have otherwise stayed with the US Military if they were paid more. It's exactly what eligible SOF service members wanted from the military in that it pays what they deserve. Even civilians are inclined to agree that our current military gets paid peanuts and gets **** on for what they're required to do, especially highly-trained SOF personnel. But take the exact same group of people outside the military and they're all of the sudden reckless cowboys? It doesn’t add up.

And the argument that these so-called "cowboys" just want to see combat goes out the window based on the fact they could have seen combat if they stayed in military and most likely already have given their prior military experience. So does wanting more money mean ethics go out the window. I think anyone is deserving of more if they’re quailified.

I just don't understand the argument here. The problems with BW most likely would have happened if our own govt forces were given the same job(s) on the ground. It's war and our own forces have screwed the pooch in this war and past conflicts/peacekeeping operations before. But here we have a group that's done the same job with 100% success rate with a few minor glitches and without expending our own forces that are already spread extremely thin. One of them kills the VPs guard because he was drunk. Fully capable of happening with our own forces. And innocents unfortunately die during this recent AMBUSH. Again, more than possible with our own men. I just don't get it!

Called me old fashioned but the bad they've done just isn't enough for me in a war zone. Show the story where Blackwater men skull-****ed the dead wives of a dozen innocently held detainees and then i'll be inclined to agree.