Exactly my point with spedmuki above.

We both agree there's dirty work to be done but people cringe at the idea when contractors do it when our forces should instead? There's no chance in hell our own forces could ever get away with this which means modern war isn't worth fighting anymore, regardless of the scenario. Unless it's on our own shores, of course.

 

That's sort of what I was getting at too.


And no, I haven't been in the military...I thought we all knew that already. I didn't mean what I said as an attack on the soldiers or the military apparatus. When I said that our regular army can't handle it I meant more that our current politcal/military/civilian state can't handle it (as we have all pretty much agreed on at this point). I just think using private contractors as an alternative is a really bad idea.

 

Although these guys do a ton of dumb **** that **** off the populace, I heard this incident was a "wrong place, wrong time". They took fire and returned it. The Iraqi gov't has been looking for a reason to crucify these guys. All said, this means nothing and I guarantee you they will continue to operate over there.

 

Hella, as a general rule I admire and respect your patriotism, I truly do. And you are right, you have to kill to win wars, but not insurgencies. Iraq is not the "dueling ground" modern media would have you believe. Soldiers don't strap up and say, "today, haj is getting knocked off" and then do it for sure. Most of the time, the opportunity never presents itself. Furthermore, if they're looking for the "opportunity" to use their weapon, they're making things worse.

This is not a body count, take the hill type of war. Iraq is fought and won on human terrain. Networking with locals, building infrasture, facilitating societal growth all set units up for success. If they do these things well, they'll find out who the "bad guy" is and when they do they bring the pain in a fashion that is truly unadulterate violence. And as a rule, you want the locals to see what that is. You want them to see you with your game face on, throwing up blocking positions, cordoning off the kill zone, and then sending the enemy to his maker. When they see this it brings about two very important points. First, if I don't do anything bad, I will never personally experience that (speaking from their prospective). And secondly, if I am doing bad things (working with insurgent/al Qeada groups) I will eventually get it in a manner that will not be pleasant or honorable, I will literally stand no chance.

As far as SOF guys getting out and becoming contractors because they have no equitable skills, I've never heard anything so stupid in my life. I've seen E-6s with more leadership skills than people who have been in their field in the corporate world for 30 years. The test a combat leader endures in one month of deployment are more than 99.99% of America will see in an entire lifetime. Good leaders can succeed anywhere, they know how to adapt, how to identify problems and how to resolve them with often limited resources. Don't do them the disservice of thinking their nothing but gunslingers.

 

who in here has ever served with these guys??

 

As far as Blackwater, I've never "served" with them however I am very familiar with how they operate. I know a few people who have worked with them. You are talking about Blackwater right?

 

Yep. they do the job that needs to be done.
Can anyone tell me the job that the special forces are doing in Iraq??? nope. So until you know all the facts, dont just assume anything.

At the same time, it is hard when you read about some of the things that have been happening with this group.

 

its not exactly a practice we invented. the holy roman empire had the swiss, and the british had the hessians, and so on

 

we also have SEALS, Rangers, Green Beret, and other spec Ops that do stuff we never can even imagine.

 

No kidding. But just about everytime anybody's used hired help for fighting wars, it's caused some type of problem. Either they take power (obviously unlikely in this case), or they give the employers a bad name by using their privateer status to break military rules/laws.


And besides, what point are you making? We didn't invent it so it's ok to do? Slavery worked for many successful empires as well...should we utilize that as a tactic?

 

You're not implying that Blackwater does anything even remotely close to what SF does are you?

 

I have worked with them and spec ops before. Cant say what I did with them, but unless you know, you dont know.