Evaluate my setup (save my life :))
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From: Lastweek Lane - Watertown, NY
Car Info: 02WRXpseudoSTiWannabeWagon
Evaluate my setup (save my life :))
Haven't had a chance to run this setup in Solo2 or during a 'day at the track', yet, but from a little test session I found it to be fun with some potential. I'm just going to need to be on my toes.
WL read adj swaybar-set to 24mm, WL ALK, and BFG KDW's (225/50/16) @ 44psi. on stock rims.
My short test resulted in quite a bit of drift when I let off of the throttle, but it was easy to regain control once throttle was re-applied.
Anyone have any experience with similiar, or just an opinion?
Thanks,
Pat
WL read adj swaybar-set to 24mm, WL ALK, and BFG KDW's (225/50/16) @ 44psi. on stock rims.
My short test resulted in quite a bit of drift when I let off of the throttle, but it was easy to regain control once throttle was re-applied.
Anyone have any experience with similiar, or just an opinion?
Thanks,
Pat
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What car? It matters. First, your tire pressure is too high, IMHO. 44 psi must ride like crap. I would start at something like 37 psi (for street driving) and work my way down from there.
You're also getting oversteer because you have too much rear bar. 22 would be better, 20 closer to neutral.
It depends on how you want to set the car up. I prefer neutral, so that I can make it do what I want, rather than built-in over or understeer.
Kevin
You're also getting oversteer because you have too much rear bar. 22 would be better, 20 closer to neutral.
It depends on how you want to set the car up. I prefer neutral, so that I can make it do what I want, rather than built-in over or understeer.
Kevin
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Yeah, your drifting becuase the rear swaybar is set at 24mm. Mine is only set at 20mm and I get some oversteer with the re92's. Put it at 22mm and see how it is. Adjust it to your liking. Also, if you got a bigger front swaybar, there would be a bit more understeer to cope(sp?) with the oversteer.
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From: Lastweek Lane - Watertown, NY
Car Info: 02WRXpseudoSTiWannabeWagon
Thanks fellas,
I've got a wagon 02 WRX.
I'll look again, but I thought that tire pressure on the KDW's was supposed to be 44. I'm probably a numbskull.
A sedan friend of mine (actually a few of them) is offering me their front swaybars.
Thanks for your input.
Pat
I've got a wagon 02 WRX.
I'll look again, but I thought that tire pressure on the KDW's was supposed to be 44. I'm probably a numbskull.
A sedan friend of mine (actually a few of them) is offering me their front swaybars.
Thanks for your input.
Pat
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I have a sedan so I don't know but isn't the front bar the same in the wagon and sedan? I know the rear is smaller.
Also I don't think the front bar will work going from sedan to wagon.
p@
www.achtuning.com
Also I don't think the front bar will work going from sedan to wagon.
p@
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Pat,
I agree with Kevin, 44psi seems awful high. Taking a look at Tire Rack's specs it appears that 44psi is the max pressure (the number on the sidewall, right?). That number on the sidewall is most definitely not the recommended pressure. Kevin's suggestion of 37psi is probably pretty good, I would imagine somewhere in the 35-37psi range is where you want to be.
As for the rear swaybar, in my opinion 20mm isn't enough. I base that on two track days in my sister's WRX wagon. Even with the sedan 20mm rear bar installed the car understeered like a pig, and even dropping the throttle mid-corner didn't do much to rotate the car. And that was with rear tire pressures set 4-6# higher than the fronts to try to balance the car. So, I would say 22mm is probably a good, safe place to start. I know on my car I actually broke one of my rear swaybar endlinks by driving on my stock suspension with my Whiteline bar maxed out
, so trying 24mm might be a bad idea if you're really pushing the car.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
I agree with Kevin, 44psi seems awful high. Taking a look at Tire Rack's specs it appears that 44psi is the max pressure (the number on the sidewall, right?). That number on the sidewall is most definitely not the recommended pressure. Kevin's suggestion of 37psi is probably pretty good, I would imagine somewhere in the 35-37psi range is where you want to be.
As for the rear swaybar, in my opinion 20mm isn't enough. I base that on two track days in my sister's WRX wagon. Even with the sedan 20mm rear bar installed the car understeered like a pig, and even dropping the throttle mid-corner didn't do much to rotate the car. And that was with rear tire pressures set 4-6# higher than the fronts to try to balance the car. So, I would say 22mm is probably a good, safe place to start. I know on my car I actually broke one of my rear swaybar endlinks by driving on my stock suspension with my Whiteline bar maxed out
, so trying 24mm might be a bad idea if you're really pushing the car.Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
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From: Lastweek Lane - Watertown, NY
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Thanks Pat,
On my list of todo (added to change my oil) is lower air pressure and put the RSB back to 22.
I know if I left it the way it was, I'd most likely have some hard learning.
It's good to have another guru here on the island.
Pat
On my list of todo (added to change my oil) is lower air pressure and put the RSB back to 22.
I know if I left it the way it was, I'd most likely have some hard learning.
It's good to have another guru here on the island.
Pat
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all these tire pressure numbers are from a general attitude, so you really need to tailor it to the specific event via shoe polish/chalk whatever to mark your tires and see how far you are coming over on the sidewall. Mark a few times across the sidewall to the tread and try to maximize your tread.
Ron
Ron
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Originally posted by Akiata
Also I don't think the front bar will work going from sedan to wagon.
p@
www.achtuning.com
Also I don't think the front bar will work going from sedan to wagon.
p@
www.achtuning.com
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Swapping front wagon sways for sedans won't work- different bar (where it attaches to link), besides they are the same dia 20-20.
A couple of thoughts- tire pressure- this will vary based on your needs- autox, track, street. You will need to experiment (for example I run close to 5lbs higher when autoxing). I think it is worth trying higher front pressure vs rear (for example I run 39.5 front/ 37.5 rear autox- T1S tire). Also get an alignment, one of the cheapest bang for your buck mods. Increase front camber from oe setting (-0.25) to -1.0- -1.4 (this can be accomplished w/ oe camber bolt). Rear camber is unadjustable (w/o bolts/plates0 and should be in the -1.3 range. I run 0 toe front/rear, if you have specific needs you can adjust toe front and rear.
Also experiment w/ your sway bar (slowly, under controlled settings ie safe). You can run "inbetween" settings, ie 22, 22.5, 23, 23.5, 24- by using one hole on one side and another on the other.
Big Sky
A couple of thoughts- tire pressure- this will vary based on your needs- autox, track, street. You will need to experiment (for example I run close to 5lbs higher when autoxing). I think it is worth trying higher front pressure vs rear (for example I run 39.5 front/ 37.5 rear autox- T1S tire). Also get an alignment, one of the cheapest bang for your buck mods. Increase front camber from oe setting (-0.25) to -1.0- -1.4 (this can be accomplished w/ oe camber bolt). Rear camber is unadjustable (w/o bolts/plates0 and should be in the -1.3 range. I run 0 toe front/rear, if you have specific needs you can adjust toe front and rear.
Also experiment w/ your sway bar (slowly, under controlled settings ie safe). You can run "inbetween" settings, ie 22, 22.5, 23, 23.5, 24- by using one hole on one side and another on the other.
Big Sky
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From: Lastweek Lane - Watertown, NY
Car Info: 02WRXpseudoSTiWannabeWagon
Big Sky,
Great advice.
I love to tinker around with different settings.
BTW, I put new 225/50/16 KDW's on the stock rims about 1 month and a half ago. When I went to check my pressure after reading this, all 4 tires were down to 32. I don't believe that they all, in synchronization, lost 12 lbs. I think that Sears filled them to what they thought they should be.
Maybe that, along with the 24 mm in the rear, and the ALK are what were the cause of my drift-o-matic setup.
Hmmm.
Pat
Great advice.
I love to tinker around with different settings.
BTW, I put new 225/50/16 KDW's on the stock rims about 1 month and a half ago. When I went to check my pressure after reading this, all 4 tires were down to 32. I don't believe that they all, in synchronization, lost 12 lbs. I think that Sears filled them to what they thought they should be.
Maybe that, along with the 24 mm in the rear, and the ALK are what were the cause of my drift-o-matic setup.
Hmmm.
Pat
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Camber/Tire pressure/temps
The poster above who mentions camber/caster settings has the right idea, methinks. On my stock '03 WRX (except for 18x7.5 Prodrive P1s wrapped with Yokohama AVS Sports) at the Streets of Willow (in Rosamond, CA) the biggest problem I had was, of course, tremendous understeer.
Now, I know that there are a number of ways to go about fixing any one problem, but ponder this:
On a properly set-up car, the Yokohamas (as per their track/race guru) should read about 190-degrees on the inside edge, then evenly spead down to about 180-degrees on the outside edge. Tire pressure should be raised or lowered as needed to reach these (optimum) operating temperatures.
Now, at the track, I was getting 180-degrees on the _outside_ edge of the front tires while the insides were reading at or below 150-degrees. That right there tells you there's a definate camber issue and that anything else you do is just dancing around the problem. This needs to be addressed first and foremost. Then, maybe, the car will _rotate_ and turn as it should.
As a side note the rear temps were indicative of a _decent_ set-up, but still need another (negative) 0.5 degree or so.
I understand that the "hot" set up is camber at -2.5 degrees up front, -2.0 in the rear and toe out front and rear at 1/8 inch. This is a far cry from the stock set-up as (correctly) alluded to by the poster above.
--BA
Now, I know that there are a number of ways to go about fixing any one problem, but ponder this:
On a properly set-up car, the Yokohamas (as per their track/race guru) should read about 190-degrees on the inside edge, then evenly spead down to about 180-degrees on the outside edge. Tire pressure should be raised or lowered as needed to reach these (optimum) operating temperatures.
Now, at the track, I was getting 180-degrees on the _outside_ edge of the front tires while the insides were reading at or below 150-degrees. That right there tells you there's a definate camber issue and that anything else you do is just dancing around the problem. This needs to be addressed first and foremost. Then, maybe, the car will _rotate_ and turn as it should.
As a side note the rear temps were indicative of a _decent_ set-up, but still need another (negative) 0.5 degree or so.
I understand that the "hot" set up is camber at -2.5 degrees up front, -2.0 in the rear and toe out front and rear at 1/8 inch. This is a far cry from the stock set-up as (correctly) alluded to by the poster above.
--BA
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Tire temps are great to help setup a car. Ideally three temps (inner, middle, outer) are taken. "Ideal" camber should be reading temps equal outer and inner. "Ideal" temps should show the center temps should be equal to the average of the outer/inner. A pyrometer is on my must have list this spring.
Big Sky
Big Sky