Brembo's big problem...
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Anyone at Brembo USA listening?
Brembo's rear 2-piston brake kit for the WRX has just been "announced." It looks great and Brembo is the unquestioned leader in brake tech, but they're targeting a price of $1,500?!?
Is Brembo USA kidding?
At $2,300 or $3,000 (!), Brembo USA's options for the front of the WRX are overpriced. Porsche owners can get bigger Brembo kits at all four corners for under or around $3,000. Why are Subaru front-only kits the same price?
WRX fans would buy the Brembo four-corner kit if it was priced competitively with the excellent Stoptech front only kit. Say $2,500-2,800 for all four corners. As it is, Brembo USA wants $3,700-$4,500! That's 20+ percent of a WRX's total new MSRP and $1,500 more than FOUR-piston "big red" Brembos at all FOUR corners for a Porsche. There's a kit for older 911s with black Brembo four-piston calipers (Boxster-style) for just $999 per axle!
Don't get me wrong, I love Brembo stuff. But the hefty WRX premium makes no sense. Brembo might make a tidy profit on the few who buy its current WRX kits (I've seen NONE on the street), but they'd make a lot more money if they lowered the price to sell more kits. The current prices feel like an insult -- smart buyers seem to be buying Stoptechs because the Brembos, while very nice, are simply wasted money.
Someone in marketing needs to take a long, hard look at their target market.
Can we get a response from Brembo on this?
pete
Is Brembo USA kidding?
At $2,300 or $3,000 (!), Brembo USA's options for the front of the WRX are overpriced. Porsche owners can get bigger Brembo kits at all four corners for under or around $3,000. Why are Subaru front-only kits the same price?
WRX fans would buy the Brembo four-corner kit if it was priced competitively with the excellent Stoptech front only kit. Say $2,500-2,800 for all four corners. As it is, Brembo USA wants $3,700-$4,500! That's 20+ percent of a WRX's total new MSRP and $1,500 more than FOUR-piston "big red" Brembos at all FOUR corners for a Porsche. There's a kit for older 911s with black Brembo four-piston calipers (Boxster-style) for just $999 per axle!
Don't get me wrong, I love Brembo stuff. But the hefty WRX premium makes no sense. Brembo might make a tidy profit on the few who buy its current WRX kits (I've seen NONE on the street), but they'd make a lot more money if they lowered the price to sell more kits. The current prices feel like an insult -- smart buyers seem to be buying Stoptechs because the Brembos, while very nice, are simply wasted money.
Someone in marketing needs to take a long, hard look at their target market.
Can we get a response from Brembo on this?
pete
Last edited by petestout; Feb 9, 2004 at 10:41 AM.
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it's kind of like how the mitsubishi dealer in hawaii charges $8,000 over msrp, they rather sell one product at a big price instead of selling many for less.
go figure
go figure
Guest
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Again, can we get a response from Brembo?
Why are Subie owners paying more for less than Porsche customers?
All these calipers/rotors already exist, so why the big markup?
Someone on this board connected to Brembo USA was kind enough to let us know what's in the works for the rear of the WRX -- and the projected price.
Can that someone speak up or talk to someone at Brembo who will?
Or do we kick this up to "General"?
Why are Subie owners paying more for less than Porsche customers?
All these calipers/rotors already exist, so why the big markup?
Someone on this board connected to Brembo USA was kind enough to let us know what's in the works for the rear of the WRX -- and the projected price.
Can that someone speak up or talk to someone at Brembo who will?
Or do we kick this up to "General"?
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perhaps because brembo can..
the front price has been fixed to that way and people have still paid for that option...
i'm not saying that's nice to the subie community or not.. but yeah.. brembo relies on its name since it's been around longer and has traditionally been known to have better brakes, etc.
the front price has been fixed to that way and people have still paid for that option...
i'm not saying that's nice to the subie community or not.. but yeah.. brembo relies on its name since it's been around longer and has traditionally been known to have better brakes, etc.
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No way Porcshe kits are as cheap as you say they are.
Brembo's are not cheap. There is a reason for that. They are superb brakes that have been proven over and over. There is a reason why they are used on all the Supercars.
You get what you pay for.
If you think Brembo pricing is radical, try some Endless or Project Mu kits.
Brembo's are not cheap. There is a reason for that. They are superb brakes that have been proven over and over. There is a reason why they are used on all the Supercars.
You get what you pay for.
If you think Brembo pricing is radical, try some Endless or Project Mu kits.
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Uh, okay... Look in Excellence Magazine, under the advertiser By Design:
Porsche Twin Turbo "Big Red" kits consisting of:
-Four Big Red, Four Piston Calipers
-Four Cross-Drilled Rotors
-Pads
-Steel Braided Brake Lines
-Ate Super Blue Fluid
-Custom hats and adaptor brackets
Prices:
993 Front and rear -- $2,449 (1995-98)
964 Front and rear -- $2,989 (1989-94)
911 Front and rear -- $3,385 (1974-89)
Or, for just $4,198 (note that's about $300 less than the four-piston "F50" front WRX kit combined with the proposed two-piston $1500 rear WRX kit) you can have the full setup that the new 911 GT3 has, with those nice, four-piston rears and SIX-PISTON fronts.
Or how about By Design's prices on straight-up "Brembo" monster kits?
-Full kit with FIFTEEN-INCH ROTORS and EIGHT PISTON calipers for the 996 TT and GT2/GT3 for just...
$4,995 (or $500 more than Brembo's F50/2-piston rear WRX kit).
Um, something's gotta give...
Porsche Twin Turbo "Big Red" kits consisting of:
-Four Big Red, Four Piston Calipers
-Four Cross-Drilled Rotors
-Pads
-Steel Braided Brake Lines
-Ate Super Blue Fluid
-Custom hats and adaptor brackets
Prices:
993 Front and rear -- $2,449 (1995-98)
964 Front and rear -- $2,989 (1989-94)
911 Front and rear -- $3,385 (1974-89)
Or, for just $4,198 (note that's about $300 less than the four-piston "F50" front WRX kit combined with the proposed two-piston $1500 rear WRX kit) you can have the full setup that the new 911 GT3 has, with those nice, four-piston rears and SIX-PISTON fronts.
Or how about By Design's prices on straight-up "Brembo" monster kits?
-Full kit with FIFTEEN-INCH ROTORS and EIGHT PISTON calipers for the 996 TT and GT2/GT3 for just...
$4,995 (or $500 more than Brembo's F50/2-piston rear WRX kit).
Um, something's gotta give...
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while i agree with imprezer, i will say this. Brembo is by far the leader in brake technology. Endless and Project Mu(while being a tad more than other systems) are specifically designed for race systems. If you want to compare those why not compare all race systems. Look at the Porsche PCCBS, $15,000. Thats the race system for porsches. So yeah brembo may provide cheaper systems for porsche but those are mild upgrades if they upgrade at all. The wrx systems are big upgrades that could very easily be used for racing.
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Originally posted by Imprezer
No way Porcshe kits are as cheap as you say they are.
Brembo's are not cheap. There is a reason for that. They are superb brakes that have been proven over and over. There is a reason why they are used on all the Supercars.
YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR
If you think Brembo pricing is radical, try some Endless or Project Mu kits.
No way Porcshe kits are as cheap as you say they are.
Brembo's are not cheap. There is a reason for that. They are superb brakes that have been proven over and over. There is a reason why they are used on all the Supercars.
YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR
If you think Brembo pricing is radical, try some Endless or Project Mu kits.
as far as mark-up over msrp...i truly don't believe in a robbery mark-up, but i do believe in keeping a products value high by the price-if it can back it up in performance.(as for me i try to get the best deals possible, thats just human nature i think
but then again, isn't having the best another human trait also?i think that brembo realizes this to some point...or at least thats what i think
my $.02
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You guys can't be serious, saying something like "Brembo is the undisputed leader in brake technology" with such confidence. A more false statement could not be made.
Does anybody here know that virtually every Brembo big brake kit is an OEM Ferrari caliper that comes with a bracket that adapts it to each car it's sold for? Does anybody know how "advanced" that caliper is? Try 1988. That caliper, albeit in a different piston size, came on the F40. The same caliper with larger pistons then came on the F50. The same caliper is now sold in a "kit" for every car under the sun with no significant changes whatsoever having been made to it.
Can anybody think of any reasons why pulling such an important component of the brake system as a caliper from a mid engine, rear drive supercar and fitting it to an all wheel drive, front engine sports sedan might cause any problems?
Does anybody here know that virtually every Brembo big brake kit is an OEM Ferrari caliper that comes with a bracket that adapts it to each car it's sold for? Does anybody know how "advanced" that caliper is? Try 1988. That caliper, albeit in a different piston size, came on the F40. The same caliper with larger pistons then came on the F50. The same caliper is now sold in a "kit" for every car under the sun with no significant changes whatsoever having been made to it.
Can anybody think of any reasons why pulling such an important component of the brake system as a caliper from a mid engine, rear drive supercar and fitting it to an all wheel drive, front engine sports sedan might cause any problems?
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My friend ordered the rear Brembos to match the Front ones he got through my shop a while a go. We ordered them a while a go and they still havent come in. Last time we checked Brembo said they were going to be out late January/Early Feb. I'll post how the install goes and if they are worth it when they finally come in.
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Originally posted by Steppin Razor
Does anybody know how "advanced" that caliper is? Try 1988. That caliper, albeit in a different piston size, came on the F40. The same caliper with larger pistons then came on the F50. The same caliper is now sold in a "kit" for every car under the sun with no significant changes whatsoever having been made to it.
Does anybody know how "advanced" that caliper is? Try 1988. That caliper, albeit in a different piston size, came on the F40. The same caliper with larger pistons then came on the F50. The same caliper is now sold in a "kit" for every car under the sun with no significant changes whatsoever having been made to it.
Brake pads, on the other hand, are a different story.
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The PCCB kits are NOT race stuff (most sanctioning bodies don't allow composite brakes) -- they're ceramic-composite instead of carbon because they're set up for dealing with street temps, etc. And they're trading in the $9,000-12,000 range if you're on your game, not $16K.
Agree with the question of whether Brembo is the "undisputed" leader in braking technology. I probably don't really know enough to say that -- but Brembo is clearly the leader in aftermarket/OEM performance brakes for the street -- and they're very, very competent brakes.
As for pricing, the generic, old-tech, OEM take-off calipers Brembo is using amortizes their costs in a huge way -- making the value of the dedicated calipers (that are probably superior) in the Stoptech kit look even more impressive -- better stuff, properly sized pistons, dedicated design and more just make the Brembos look like even more over-priced. If anything, using 1988-on calipers and/or generic pistons (can anyone confirm this?!?) should allow Brembo to come to market with its kits at a LOWER price than the competition -- thus building market share and long-term customers.
Clearly, we're being asked to pay for a name. And that's okay -- as much of the retail business operates this way -- but paying anywhere from 35% to 100% more for the same (or a lesser?) product is a... really big problem.
I'd like to see Brembo be a bigger part of the Subie world, just as it is in the Porsche world. But how can it work that the more expensive car crowd is asked to pay less for the brake upgrades -- and comparing how much of an upgrade is irrelevant because we're talking about the same amount parts either way -- while the younger, less wealthy crowd is being asked to pay MORE for the same or lesser upgrades.
Put it into the kit price vs. MSRP ratio and the delta is just insane!
Which brings us back to the original problem. Can we kick this up to a level where Brembo would see it and respond? They're losing a lot of great customers and, again, I'd love to see their products on more Subies...
Agree with the question of whether Brembo is the "undisputed" leader in braking technology. I probably don't really know enough to say that -- but Brembo is clearly the leader in aftermarket/OEM performance brakes for the street -- and they're very, very competent brakes.
As for pricing, the generic, old-tech, OEM take-off calipers Brembo is using amortizes their costs in a huge way -- making the value of the dedicated calipers (that are probably superior) in the Stoptech kit look even more impressive -- better stuff, properly sized pistons, dedicated design and more just make the Brembos look like even more over-priced. If anything, using 1988-on calipers and/or generic pistons (can anyone confirm this?!?) should allow Brembo to come to market with its kits at a LOWER price than the competition -- thus building market share and long-term customers.
Clearly, we're being asked to pay for a name. And that's okay -- as much of the retail business operates this way -- but paying anywhere from 35% to 100% more for the same (or a lesser?) product is a... really big problem.
I'd like to see Brembo be a bigger part of the Subie world, just as it is in the Porsche world. But how can it work that the more expensive car crowd is asked to pay less for the brake upgrades -- and comparing how much of an upgrade is irrelevant because we're talking about the same amount parts either way -- while the younger, less wealthy crowd is being asked to pay MORE for the same or lesser upgrades.
Put it into the kit price vs. MSRP ratio and the delta is just insane!
Which brings us back to the original problem. Can we kick this up to a level where Brembo would see it and respond? They're losing a lot of great customers and, again, I'd love to see their products on more Subies...