Brembo vs. Stoptech
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by AaronC
Actually you would be surprised at how much of a difference a caliper can make. A good caliper is more rigid, so more force can be applied even when it is under high-heat conditions. Some cast calipers can flex alot more then you might think. A good caliper also will release the rotor even when it is hot, whereas a standard caliper can cause parisitic loss becasue of bad high-heat tolerances.
Actually you would be surprised at how much of a difference a caliper can make. A good caliper is more rigid, so more force can be applied even when it is under high-heat conditions. Some cast calipers can flex alot more then you might think. A good caliper also will release the rotor even when it is hot, whereas a standard caliper can cause parisitic loss becasue of bad high-heat tolerances.
have a nice day.
p@
www.achtuning.com
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 48
It is funny how people keep making statements about brand loyalty to brembo. I actually sell brakes from another company, and I find that stoptech has more people blinded by propaganda then brembo does.
The interesting thing about brakes is that there should not be discussion about, who you like better, or about who everyone else has. Braking is about physics plain and simple. Whoever has the best technology is the brake system that should be bought. Who has the most rigid calipers, who has the best fluid transfer methods, what proccess is used in making the caliper(eg cast aluminum vs forged), how effective is the pad retention or retraction from the rotor, how linear is the pedal pressure required, etc.
The interesting thing about brakes is that there should not be discussion about, who you like better, or about who everyone else has. Braking is about physics plain and simple. Whoever has the best technology is the brake system that should be bought. Who has the most rigid calipers, who has the best fluid transfer methods, what proccess is used in making the caliper(eg cast aluminum vs forged), how effective is the pad retention or retraction from the rotor, how linear is the pedal pressure required, etc.
Last edited by AaronC; Jan 4, 2003 at 12:17 AM.
Admin v2.0
iTrader: (9)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 6,965
From: Alameda, CA, USA
Car Info: 02 Black Legacy GT
Well,
I think that if one was to ask which brakes are the best, there is no answer to it. Just like a question of what car is the best.
It comes down to comparing the pros and cons, taking your personal preference, possible brand loyalty and getting a kit that is right for you.
No need to fight over silly things.
- Alex
I think that if one was to ask which brakes are the best, there is no answer to it. Just like a question of what car is the best.
It comes down to comparing the pros and cons, taking your personal preference, possible brand loyalty and getting a kit that is right for you.
No need to fight over silly things.
- Alex
Guest
Posts: n/a
The interesting thing about brakes is that there should not be discussion about, who you like better, or about who everyone else has. Braking is about physics plain and simple. Whoever has the best technology is the brake system that should be bought. Who has the most rigid calipers, who has the best fluid transfer methods, what proccess is used in making the caliper(eg cast aluminum vs forged), how effective is the pad retention or retraction from the rotor, how linear is the pedal pressure required, etc.---AaronC
Aaron, I couldn't agree more. We have done lab comparisons of StopTech caliper stiffness versus the key competition. In our tests the ST40 is twice as stiff in pressure tests and FEA analysis versus the measured competition. The challenge for StopTech as a new vendor confronted by the outstanding market leader is to get out that message. We can not just say our tests show we have a stiffer caliper. We believe that our cast caliper design with our bridge are on a par with similiar sized billet calipers.
The user community wants and deserves unbiased confirmation of our claims. The C&D article was a step in the right direction in getting out unbiased data to the consumer.
Further racers want lab claims to be proven on the track.
We will have many more racers (for us) racing with StopTech components in 2003. StopTech has agreed to be a Speed channel World Challenge sponsor and has delivered a number of brake systems to Touring car teams. These teams, including a promising Subaru team, will be running the same type of Caliper delivered with our street kits.
I will try to always keep our message devoted to the facts and if I waver blast away.
Akiata didn't mean to smack you down and I agree with your statements; I just wanted to point out the exact differences.
Thanks to the board for letting me chime in on this thread and I hope I have not offended anyone.
Bob Lee
StopTech LLC
Aaron, I couldn't agree more. We have done lab comparisons of StopTech caliper stiffness versus the key competition. In our tests the ST40 is twice as stiff in pressure tests and FEA analysis versus the measured competition. The challenge for StopTech as a new vendor confronted by the outstanding market leader is to get out that message. We can not just say our tests show we have a stiffer caliper. We believe that our cast caliper design with our bridge are on a par with similiar sized billet calipers.
The user community wants and deserves unbiased confirmation of our claims. The C&D article was a step in the right direction in getting out unbiased data to the consumer.
Further racers want lab claims to be proven on the track.
We will have many more racers (for us) racing with StopTech components in 2003. StopTech has agreed to be a Speed channel World Challenge sponsor and has delivered a number of brake systems to Touring car teams. These teams, including a promising Subaru team, will be running the same type of Caliper delivered with our street kits.
I will try to always keep our message devoted to the facts and if I waver blast away.
Akiata didn't mean to smack you down and I agree with your statements; I just wanted to point out the exact differences.
Thanks to the board for letting me chime in on this thread and I hope I have not offended anyone.
Bob Lee
StopTech LLC
Guest
Posts: n/a
That's ok rlee. 
And AaronC. You are totally taking everything I say wrong. I was not saying stoptechs are better but that I do not have stock brakes anymore and do know the advantages of having a good brake system. Now lets hug.
have a nice day.
p@
www.achtuning.com
And AaronC. You are totally taking everything I say wrong. I was not saying stoptechs are better but that I do not have stock brakes anymore and do know the advantages of having a good brake system. Now lets hug.
have a nice day.
p@
www.achtuning.com
Guest
Posts: n/a
Also, the very scary part about how the Stop techs brackets where pulling out or comming loose.
I was informed by Matt Weiss over at stoptech that they suggest taking the bracket and caliper off as a hole, by taking the bracket off the car with caliper still bolted to it, when needing to take the caliper off. This information is not included in the instructions or any information I've seen on their site. Perhaps they should mentioned this somewhere if this is the expected procedure.
Looking at my Stoptech install directions from 10-23-01 and 5-08-02, they have backed off the torque on the Jetnut from 55-45 down to 45-40.
There is a few other holes in the Stoptech directions I think they could clear up to make installation easier on people who are not experts in brake kits.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 107
From: Lake Hughes | CA
Car Info: WRX Wagon
mr. lee
one thing that concerns me about any new and relatively small company, especially regarding something as critical to safety as brakes, is lack of certification. Are these brakes DOT or more important TÜV certified?
Though not an american standard, TÜV is one of the most stringent testing standards in the world. If a component is not TÜV certified then it can not be legally installed on a car in Germany. Unlike the US, in germany one needs to have their entire car TÜV checked and certifed every couple of years. This ensures that every car is safe and functioning properly. Anyway, my point is, for something as important as brakes, it would be nice to have peace of mind knowing that a brake sytem has been rigorously tested and approved for road use by an independent institution. And testing is not just stopping distances and brake fade!
Brembo brakes are TÜV approved. I have a better guaratnee that these won't fail. In the end we only have Stoptech's word, a magazine test, and some word of mouth, that they are safe for the long term. For me, this is one reason I hesitate in going with a stop tech or wilwood.
in case you want to look into certification: www.tuvamerica.com
look into "industries served -> automotive"
one thing that concerns me about any new and relatively small company, especially regarding something as critical to safety as brakes, is lack of certification. Are these brakes DOT or more important TÜV certified?
Though not an american standard, TÜV is one of the most stringent testing standards in the world. If a component is not TÜV certified then it can not be legally installed on a car in Germany. Unlike the US, in germany one needs to have their entire car TÜV checked and certifed every couple of years. This ensures that every car is safe and functioning properly. Anyway, my point is, for something as important as brakes, it would be nice to have peace of mind knowing that a brake sytem has been rigorously tested and approved for road use by an independent institution. And testing is not just stopping distances and brake fade!
Brembo brakes are TÜV approved. I have a better guaratnee that these won't fail. In the end we only have Stoptech's word, a magazine test, and some word of mouth, that they are safe for the long term. For me, this is one reason I hesitate in going with a stop tech or wilwood.
in case you want to look into certification: www.tuvamerica.com
look into "industries served -> automotive"
Last edited by Arnie; Jan 22, 2003 at 01:28 AM.
Guest
Posts: n/a
This might be somewht off topic so I apologize, but with an upgraded kit (brembo/stoptech or any thing) I understand that braded break lines are very important part to the kit. I want to know if anyone here has had custom ones made or use aftermarket ones, I am looking to get some opinions since i need to upgrade to new lines in the spring
Guest
Posts: n/a
TUV
Arnie
StopTech brake lines are DOT compliant. In America this is the agency that regulates brakes and brake systems.
We have started the process of TUV approval. TUV has the first brake kit platform that we are having certified.
When you are comparing Brembo North America kits to StopTech you are comparing similiar sized companies. The Brembo North American kits are not the same ones delivered in Europe. The North American kits are designed and manufactured in Costa Mesa California. The staff there designs the hats and brackets and subcontracts the work to a local machine shop. The calipers and rotors are made in Italy by Brembo S.p.A.
The Brembo North America brake kits are not designed by the same engineers that design Formula one brake systems and are not manufacted in Italy.
StopTech designs our brake systems in Torrance California and manufactures all the Calipers, hats, brackets and brake lines in our facility using our CNC equiptment. We are laying in the groundwork at Torrance to become an ISO registered supplier. StopTech supplies private label products to a division of a major automotive manufacturer and has passed their on site inspection.
Brembo North America is currently providing stainless steel brake lines manufactured by Goodrich USA.
To my knowledge we are the only brake line manufacturer testing each brake 100% to 4500psi (this test is not required by DOT for each line). The stainless steel lines are one of the most critical parts of a brake kit. I would like to see other companies doing this same 100% testing. StopTech also tests each Caliper to 2600 psi. TUV does not require this level of testing.
I am confident that we will soon be TUV certified.
StopTech brake lines are DOT compliant. In America this is the agency that regulates brakes and brake systems.
We have started the process of TUV approval. TUV has the first brake kit platform that we are having certified.
When you are comparing Brembo North America kits to StopTech you are comparing similiar sized companies. The Brembo North American kits are not the same ones delivered in Europe. The North American kits are designed and manufactured in Costa Mesa California. The staff there designs the hats and brackets and subcontracts the work to a local machine shop. The calipers and rotors are made in Italy by Brembo S.p.A.
The Brembo North America brake kits are not designed by the same engineers that design Formula one brake systems and are not manufacted in Italy.
StopTech designs our brake systems in Torrance California and manufactures all the Calipers, hats, brackets and brake lines in our facility using our CNC equiptment. We are laying in the groundwork at Torrance to become an ISO registered supplier. StopTech supplies private label products to a division of a major automotive manufacturer and has passed their on site inspection.
Brembo North America is currently providing stainless steel brake lines manufactured by Goodrich USA.
To my knowledge we are the only brake line manufacturer testing each brake 100% to 4500psi (this test is not required by DOT for each line). The stainless steel lines are one of the most critical parts of a brake kit. I would like to see other companies doing this same 100% testing. StopTech also tests each Caliper to 2600 psi. TUV does not require this level of testing.
I am confident that we will soon be TUV certified.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 107
From: Lake Hughes | CA
Car Info: WRX Wagon
TÜV, etc.
That is great to hear! You can count me in when I look into a big brake kit later this year. Its great to know that beyond the great reviews your kits have gotten that you are taking extra steps to get worldwide type certification (ISO, TÜV, etc.) . It adds a huge level of confidence to the consumer as well as opens your potential markets. Once you receive these certifications I will be the first to start peddling your wares on the German Impreza GT club (they are pretty much the central hub for info for Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Holland, N. Italy and some of France). Up until now the only real option has been the MovIt or Brembo kits for an upgrade. I hope you'll be able to maintain your competitive price edge over these companies when you start to sell big in Europe. Its also important for me as I will eventually move back to Germany and I want to use your brakes. (Ah ha! my secret motivation behind this whole TÜV post!)
Great work StopTech!
Very interesting background info about Brembo. Thanks for the insider view.
Great work StopTech!
Very interesting background info about Brembo. Thanks for the insider view.
Last edited by Arnie; Jan 22, 2003 at 09:29 AM.
Registered User
iTrader: (5)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,305
From: Kandahar, Afghanistan
Car Info: 09 E90 M3 SEDAN w/DCT
I tend to believe that both the Brembo's and the Stoptech are exellent setups. I was going to go with the Stoptechs, until I came across a deal that was too good to resist on the Brembo Golds.
I wish that Stoptech would make a rear 2 pot oversize caliper to rival the STi Brembo rears.
I wish that Stoptech would make a rear 2 pot oversize caliper to rival the STi Brembo rears.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Just had the Stoptech's installed on the WRX about a month ago and can tell there's a great improvement over the stock setup. Plus, they look good too!
I had Brembo's installed on the BMW at about the same time, but haven't had a chance to break them in all the way. First impression is that they squeak like a mother! But, they also look damn cool!
I had Brembo's installed on the BMW at about the same time, but haven't had a chance to break them in all the way. First impression is that they squeak like a mother! But, they also look damn cool!
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 201
From: Dallas Texas
Car Info: 2003 WRX Blue
I am looking at getting some Advan RG 17x7.5 with an offset .48 and I don't know if the Stoptech big brake system will fit or not. Does anyone know if they will work together. Please let me know